Pesky evidence no more...

[ATL2CDG]

Who do I (we) hate?

Bush? Despite your efforts to tell me what I think, feel and believe, you're sadly mistaken.

I do not hate Bush. I do not agree with many of his adminstration's policies, however, conversely, I agree with many of his policies.

Why must so many people go to the extreme? 'You don't support the efforts in Iraq? You must hate Bush, hate America, support terrorists and be a communist!' Sadly, no. I'm not a 'one issue' man; I develop my socio-political idealogies on a WIDE range of issues and topics. Please don't try to assume who I am or what I believe on EVERY topic based on my input on a singular issue.

 

[ATL2CDG]

EagleRJ:

The term 'crime' in the idiom was in no way meant to be a reflection of my opinion of the acts in question. It was an expression.

Do I think the US military has right to extract valuable information from individuals to further the cause? Absolutely. Do I think innocent people should die in order to meet these ends? No. Do I think guilty people have a right to 'justice' (in whatever form the proper authorities see fit)? Yes. I simply do not feel that a group of reserve MPs has the right to play jury, judge and sentence-enforcer.

 

[Timebuilder]

Rather than removing the means of uncovering the acts, why do we not focus on correcting the offending behavior?

To me, this seem like the old idiom, "A crime is only illegal when you're caught."

I was commenting on the fact that any camera in a secure area was unheard of 30 years ago, so I'm amazed any phots that were permitted to be taken were not retained in a chain of possession.

If we need to play hardball with thugs to get info, even playing weird head games to get that info, then fine. Let's own up to it when the war is over, and and stand by it. If not, find out who screwed up and take care of business.

None of these prisoners were there for jaywalking. Some creative chemistry in a IV should be all that's necessary to get the job done right.

 

[Timebuilder]

Denis almost got it right. He got the first five words: "Man will never be free."

The last part is "until Christ returns to reign."

 

[ATL2CDG]

bart:

I do have some sad information for you regarding your desire that I enlist in the US Armed Forces.

After doing a quick google search on neo-conservative Rush Limbaugh, I discovered that he was declared ineligible for military service during the Vietnam era due to a pilonidal cyst. Interestingly enough, I share this same congenital birth defect.

As such, a cyst on my a.s.s will not let me serve. How fitting, don't you think?

 

[ATL2CDG]

Ah ah ah ah ah, Timebuilder!

Let's not change the subject... I know it's hard, but you're a smart man and I know you can stay on topic.

 

[CLCAP]

Well people - I'm sorry to say it - but you are just going to have to LIVE with the fact that more and more Americans (looking from the begining of this century till now) give a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**! They don't see much difference between an innocent Iraqi and an innocent American. Call it soft, stupid anything you like. You can call the media liberal until you turn blue in the face - comparing our media to say - European, Asian, South American, Australian, well he11 even Canadian (not to speak about middle eastern) - we have the most conservative media in the world. You just continue drinking the Bush koolaid until elections.

And Timebuilder - you seem to be the biggest enigma on this board - you seem to consider yourself christian but where is the love? If I don't remember it wrong - Jesus was about loving other people, helping them and sacrificing - nowhere can I find anything about attacking other countries under false pretenses and not owing up to it. (If Bush at least would say - we were wrong about the WMD's - but the man is NEVER wrong) or torturing and humiliating innocent people (our own government admits that 60-90% of the people in that prison happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time)

To me you really are an oxymoron.

 

[Timebuilder]

Call it soft, stupid anything you like. You can call the media liberal until you turn blue in the face - comparing our media to say - European, Asian, South American, Australian, well he11 even Canadian (not to speak about middle eastern) - we have the most conservative media in the world. You just continue drinking the Bush koolaid until elections.

Having been a memeber of said liberal media, I have the standing to speak on it. Just because other countries have an extreme liberal bias does not mean our media is in any way "conservative." I don't drink anyone's Kool Aid. Hey! Another personal attack. Out of ammo?

And Timebuilder - you seem to be the biggest enigma on this board - you seem to consider yourself christian but where is the love? If I don't remember it wrong - Jesus was about loving other people, helping them and sacrificing - nowhere can I find anything about attacking other countries under false pretenses and not owing up to it. (If Bush at least would say - we were wrong about the WMD's - but the man is NEVER wrong) or torturing and humiliating innocent people (our own government admits that 60-90% of the people in that prison happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time)

I have a greater love for my fellow citizens than I do for the terrorists. God has lead His people into battle countless times, and given them victory. If you are implying that Christianity is a pacifist idea, I think you will find that is not the case. Read Revelation, and find out what God has planned for those who are against Him. You're in for a surprise.

Where are the false pretenses you're talking about? As far as I'm concerned, we had all the reason we needed to go into Iraq when Sadaam violated the cease fire agreement and the weapons inspection agreement, and the UN resolutions, and the....well, you get the idea. As far as WMD's, I think they will be found in Syria, since we spent so much time working on the coalition, giving Sadaam ample time to move the WMD's anywhere he wanted.

Torturing and humiliating innocent people? Torture? Where? Humiliating? Awwww, we're sorry Mr Sadaam loyalist. You supported an evil dicatator who cut off hands, but we didn't mean to make you feel bad.

Maybe we should send over some democrats to help them regain their self esteem.

 

[CLCAP]

How funny of you to disregard the govenment approved report that 60 - 90 % of them were INNOCENT!! (Red Cross says 80-90%) Also - some have apparently been killed (one being a fromer general) - but hey - who needs the geneva convention when you are a superpower right? I guess putting someones head under water and giving them the impression that they will die if they don't comply falls under playfulness. So does strapping electrodes to someone putting a hood over their face and telling them that they will be electrecuted if they step off. I am not by any means saying that there are no worse means of torture and that some people have no qualms about using it on our people - but we pride ourselves in being above that.

And yes! God has a plan for everyone but nowhere in the revelation does it say for YOU to interpret it. The God I know wants you to love other people - give and not take - (does Thau Shall NOT kill ring a bell?? - how about turn the other cheek?) It's pretty obvious at this time that Sadam (as evil of a person as he was) did not even remotely pose a threat to us - and if we thought so before and the intel was wrong - well fess up to it. Sounds VERY hypocritical to me.

Wasn't it great when out biggest topic was the Presidents sexlife?

 

[Timebuilder]

How funny of you to disregard the govenment approved report that 60 - 90 % of them were INNOCENT!! (Red Cross says 80-90%) Also - some have apparently been killed (one being a fromer general) - but hey - who needs the geneva convention when you are a superpower right?

"Government approved?" That's a good thing? Who approved it? What did they know? The Red Cross? They are experts on who is innocent of something? Really?

The Red Cross is an expert on blood donations, blankets, and medicine. Guilt or innocence? No. Sorry. I reject that ability as having any credibility where they are concerned.

I guess putting someones head under water and giving them the impression that they will die if they don't comply falls under playfulness.

That qualifies as torture for you? I am jealous of your naïveté.

And yes! God has a plan for everyone but nowhere in the revelation does it say for YOU to interpret it.

Not true. The individual believer is to read and interpret on his own using simple guidelines of common sense. Very little is unclear in scripture, and where an idea seems difficult to understand, there are those who have studied on far deeper levels to suggest, not dictate, a better understanding. The reason we have His word is so that everyone can know what it is, not for a central authority to have some special insight as chosen prophets to interpret what God says.

A while back someone pointed out a little cult that handles snakes and drinks poison because the Bible mentions it. Does this mean that it is a directive, something that SHOULD be done? No. It is an illustration of God's power and faithfulness to us.

The God I know wants you to love other people - give and not take - (does Thau Shall NOT kill ring a bell?? - how about turn the other cheek?) It's pretty obvious at this time that Sadam (as evil of a person as he was) did not even remotely pose a threat to us - and if we thought so before and the intel was wrong - well fess up to it. Sounds VERY hypocritical to me.

Actually, it's "thou shalt not murder," and that's a BIG difference. God grants civil authority the power to decide and deliver justice, just as He allowed the Romans to deliver their "justice" to Him. If His crucifixtion had been "wrong" or "illegal" He would not have permitted Himeself to be a participant. His death authenticated the right of Man, via his civil government to demand and deliver capital punishment. This covers the right to use an army, too.

How do you judge a threat to us? I'm not at all concerned that he was a threat. The intel showed he was, and we gave him time to hide or export anything he wanted to keep from us. While we waited to pacify the Europeans who had fueled his regime, he had time to clean house.

As I said, we had ample reason to go in without ANY WMD's.

Wasn't it great when out biggest topic was the Presidents sexlife?

Remember what happened when that WAS the topic? Clinton launched cruise missles and the headline changed to one he was more comfortable with, one that might help save his "legacy."

Sorry, Bill.