Airline Pilot Pay and Attitudes...

[surplus1]

Anthony

I warned you at the beginning of this thread. Now you've seen it for yourself.

America's new god is the dollar. Honesty, integrity, morality, respect for self, respect for humanity, justice for all, and all those other "old fashioned" cliches (values) on which our Republic was founded are pase', outdated, unpopular, etc., etc. Most of the "new generation" doesn't even know how we got here and doesn't give a d**n about where we might be tomorrow. In today's world it's all about instant gratification. I want it all and I want it now, to h**l with you.

People like you were once a majority in this country and the ideals you preach were once its foundtion. That is no longer the case. Pronounce those ideals today and you will be vilified, chastised and if possible banished. Just read the replies you got and you have the evidence.

We have a new credo and it is no longer life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It is "get rich now" and by god ($$$) do whaterver you can to whomever you can to get there. When you do get there, step on those that remain on the lower rungs of the ladder for if they climb higher it will surely be at your expense. Lie, cheat, steal if you have to; as long as you get there, who cares how you did it.

If you're old enough you may remember this: "The old gray mare ain't what she used to be."

Good luck to you and thank you sincerely for your service to our country. Just don't be surprised when the popularity of 9-11 wears off and you begin to get the same treatment that we gave to those who sacrificed in Viet Nam or you're fogotten like those who died in Korea.

The dream is dead, the $$$ is King. Worship his golden image or be cast out.

Sayonara.

 

[TurboS7]

I make about 90K per year max with OT and day off pay. Benifits for me are paid for but I have to pay extra to cover my family, but they are tax deductable. My pay is based on 70 hours per month and to do that you work about 10 days per month. My base salary if you want to call it is 78K for a six year captain topping out at 105K for a 12 year captain. Ironically the standard that we used when we negociated our contract were two carriers that are no longer with us. I hope that we are not the third. Anyhow I have about 13 years left to fly before I am 60. I have penciled going the major airline route, 5 to 7 years as FO then going to junior captain. When it is all said and done I will make about another 200K gross salary over what I am now. Plus I have to fly as FO. I just flew a trip as FO the other day as we were short, what a pain, being a captain is the only way to go. I agree with Boeingman the secrect is using the time off to develop some other business to keep you going, especially after retirement. Are airline pilots's overpaid-no they are not. Most vp's of Fortune 500 companies make over 6 figures easy. I can make one decision, even a simple one, that can make or break the company. As Boeing man stated the averge airline pilot makes about 130K per year as FO and usually makes captain the last 10 years of his/her tenure. There are a lot of wild stories out there about guys making captain in two, three or 5 years but they will look in to history as the exception. Just 15 years ago at UAL, EAL, Panam, and others it was taking 20 years just to make captain. I believe that those days are here again. I would much rather be a captain with a little salary and a little airplane(738) then to be a FO with the same salary in a big airplane. My own personal preference, basically for as long as it last I am happy where I am at. Cheers. Yes I have also been to the uttermost and as American's we are very, very lucky people, we live in Disneyland.

 

[kilomike]

Surplus1 and Anthony,

I could not have said it better. Excellent remarks about the selfishness that is hurting our country today.

I would be honored to have either of you in my aircraft someday.

Fly safe,

Kilomike

 

[FlyComAirJets]

I think the prevailing sentiment in this country is, "Everyone is overpaid except ME!" I do not know what the preoccupation is with why this or that movie star makes $20 mil per movie or A Rod gets $200+ mil to hit a small ball with a wood club, but it certainly generates a lot of attention.

 

[JetLee]

AJ,

I got out of the Army a few years ago and now work for Comair. Let me tell you my perspective has changed dramatically since then. I once felt as you did on the subject, but learned that my Army life was a bit sterile compared to the civilian world. In the Army you always knew you had a job and a paycheck. In this industry that can change in an instant. Just ask some of the folks on this board if you don't believe me.

Without trying to compare our profession to doctors, lawyers or whomever, ours is unique. When you consider that a lifetime of earning say 80k per year from college graduation to indefinitely by most other professions and that your average lifetime earnings as an airline pilot is actually much less when you spend years and years making something around 18k and then your "chicken done" at age 60.

Don't be fooled into thinking the airlines are hurting as badly as they might have you believe. The media has a great way of making everything sound like dire staights. I know this because I wear my ALPA pin with star (struck), as proudly as I wore my combat patch on my right shoulder on active duty. Comair or should I say Delta lost hundreds of millions of dollars just to prove a point. To them (management) I'm sure it was money well spent. If they took that same lost money and spent a third of it on what we were asking for it could have been all over with before it even started. The media made statements like "If the pilots don't except this contract, they will bankrupt the airline!". Hell even the Wall Street analyst fell for it and joined in. It was all unequvically FALSE! 9-11 was a major tragedy and extreme loss for many, but don't buy into the sky is falling theory too quickly. One thing I learned is that it wasn't what they could afford, but what they can control instead. When the top brass at an airline turn down their multi-million dollar bonuses every quarter or better yet their exorbinant salaries for a few pay periods then and only then should it's minority of highly paid pilots be expected to do the same. Isn't that fair?

I truly love what I do, but love for a profession doesn't put food in my kids mouths or send them to college.

Time to think outside the box (unless your taking your inst. APART in the sim).

fly safe! WHOOOWHAAA!

 

[HvyjetFO]

Anthony,

I don't complain about what you make for a living, so don't complain about what I make. If I offered you my annual salary, I'm presuming you'd decline as it is too much money?

FWIW, many of us progressed up the civilian route flight instructing, cargo hauling, and commuters. We got paid crap, flew a ton, and loved every minute of it. Yes, the commuters need to get paid more - no question. In fact, if we could reduce the disparity in pay between majors and commuters we'd all have better job security. However, I am quite sure I deserve the pay I earn at the airline I work for, as I have paid my dues in spades.

Hvy

 

[ksu_aviator]

Just to kind of get back on to the subject of Regional pay V Major pay...

Regional pilots don't get paid nearly as much not because they don't have the same responsibilities and liability but because they don't have the same experience or generate nearly as much revenue.

Lets say passengers pay $500 for a flight.

If that flight is on a CRJ (50 seat) that flight brings in $25,000 full

If that flight is on a 757 can hold 201 to 231 passengers and that would generate $100,500 to 115,500 for that flight.

Granted the above is relying 100% capacity, but I think you get the idea. A CRJ or any other regional aircraft just doesn't generate the revenue that a large jet does.

I know I over simplified this, there a lot of other factors that go into the revenue generated by an aircraft, I was just trying to illustrate why regional pilots are paid very little. This isn't to say that they are paid properly, just that they will never be paid the equivlant of a major.

The Angry Statement
All you left wing commie pinko fags that think everyone should do according to the abilities and recieve according to their needs need to pack up and move to China. Socialism has no place in the USA!
End of The Angry Statement

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

Stating the obvious regarding regional pay vs. major pay, the regionals pay what they do because pilots are willing to work for those wages. The regional pilot will build their time in hopes of hitting the "mother lode" at the majors. The regionals (and majors) take advantage of this. Kind of like minor league ball players hoping to make it to the bigs.
It is a shame but that is the way the system is currently.
It's a labor of love.
Pilots making too much money....it took a lot of hard work to get to that "easy" flying job. Takes a lot of hard work just to get the minimum requirements to apply!

 

[HERCDRVR]

Coming from a military aviation background I'm relatively new to the civilian side. I recently got out of the military a few months ago and intended to pursue an airline career, but the more I learn about this side of aviation the more I get disgusted with it. I find it difficult to deal with all the back-stabbing, petty arguments, and oversized egos on the aviator side, and the blatant mistreatment of pilots on the management side.

That's funny, that's the way I sometimes felt about flying in the military. At least in the airlines, you know exactly where you stand...seniority...seniority....seniority...

 

[HERCDRVR]

One more crazy thing I've noticed is how many pilots who think they are better because they fly larger aircraft. To those pilots I say "get yourself a good psychologist" because you've got some serious issues!!

I was truely amazed at the following true event. During the last few days of work while standing around and chatting with some fellow captains, knowing that I was at the top of the furlough list, all they could talk about was the fact that they may get displaced from the 777 to the 767. They were heartless. I hope they stay the minority... Good discussions...not much else to do except cruise the boards here while waiting for recall. Thanks to all..