Airline Pilot Pay and Attitudes...

[kilomike]

Anthony's remarks about environmental issues shows thought and concern. I have been to other parts of the world as well.

Someone called environmentalists "envirowackos". How mature.... NOT!

While I'm not a tree hugger, we do have only one planet on which to live, and we all have a responsibility to manage it properly.

I flew for a 135 operator in Maine and saw the devastating effects of clear-cutting. Huge areas of forests were destroyed.

Yes, there are problems with the way the environment has been managed, in a variety of ways, both from polluters and people who allow deer overpopulation to occur. Name-calling does not solve these kinds of problems or issues.

 

[Boeingman]

Anthony:

Kudos to you if this is the lifestyle you feel is right for you and yours. Personally, I am making a killing financially with my side business and I don't regret every penny I make at CAL. Why?

To give my family the best of everything. If you want to have your's live on 80K a year...... fine. However don't try and make others feel guilty about their success be it financial or with a career.

80K, sheesh, thats not even half of what I paid in taxes last year.

 

[DoinTime]

Do you think the mechanic who fixed the engine on your plane is any less responsible for the lives on your plane. Where is his 200K.

Pilots make more money than mechanics for one simple reason. When the pilot screws up, the pilot is dead. When the mechanic screws up, the pilot is dead.

 

[EAP]

....time to go missed....

Anthony originally posted -
"And that is why your companies are going broke, because they have too many selfish pilots working for them. Someone recently sent me a private post that was fitting, "Many Airline pilots can't see the forest through the trees."

I wish you could save the sweeping comments for subjects you actually have first hand experience with. The second and third hand (questionable at best) information regurgitation and broad brush comments detract from your thoughtful intentions.

 

[Anthony]

EAP

Good advise. I do believe it's time to go missed.... I sense that I'm getting a bit irritated at having so many responses from folks who think money is the only bottom line. My last comment was a bit raw and I apologize.

I'm curious to know what the responses would be if I posted a message on a lawyers board advocating a little restraint on their high commissions (which I know everyone of you guys would agree can be a bit excessive). It would probably be similar to taking a baseball bat to a hornets nest.

Best of luck to you all, AJ

 

[skytrucker]

Red Ink

In case no one's noticed... Life is not fair.

What people get paid realy has absolutely nothing to do with how "hard", "skilled", "dangerous" thier job is. I know a person who answers a phone for a living (taking messages), who makes more than me.

As far as the point that regional pay sucks A$$, you are right.

Mechanic's pay. That's a sin too. (Again, read line one) Right now most wrench monkey's make more than me.

I really don't have a beef with airline pilots making gobs of money because chances are they spent many years NOT making a living wage, paying dues.

By my tally; flight training, aviation college, CFI pay, crappy 135 pay... I'm about 500,000 short of what any sane person with a degree would have made/not spent to work for a living.

Here's the kicker; I really don't care that much. I love to fly and still think I'm winning because I get to fly five days a week. Financially, I'm still a loser, but the fun meter in the green.

Blue skies

 

[LR25]

Come on!

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Dointime writes:
Quote:

"Pilots make more money than mechanics for one simple reason. When the pilot screws up, the pilot is dead. When the mechanic screws up, the pilot is dead."

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Do you have any concept of what a mechanics mindset is when he twists that last piece of safety wire and turns that last fastsner on the panel before he puts a pen to the logbook?

I happen to think of the 3 people in the front (freighter) that are depending on me to do the right thing.

I have gone trough more training to be able to fix, troubleshoot, diagnose, test successfully on a particular airplane than it has to get typed on it.

I toil, break my back, freeze my arse off, fingers smashed, skydrol ingestion, JET-A baths, heck, I can come up with alot more I guess. Yes, my arse dont get in most of them when I do turn that last fastsner, but my expertise, knowledge, professionalism, and knowhow is no different from the guy that puts the seatbelt on.

Plus, I have to pull the gearpin and hook the torque links together before they can even taxi, I guess I can always call the company and tell them to give me a raise before I let the airplane go, HEHE.

But seriously folks, I flyem full-time now and still work on them part-time, I been in both worlds of the airline biz, everybody involved deserves a piece of the pie.

It is a good feeling to get off from work from a long trip, and on my days off go and fixem, I don't even mind if its raining, my roots are firmly planted.

Heck, I have to, I work for a regional you know.

LR25

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Anthony,

yeah, guess some of my comments can be childish.....thats OK.

Just a little sick of your types who cry about life not being fair for the starving in Africa, etc...
I truly dont give a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**, dont live in Africa, never will. Food dont grow in arid sand. WAKE UP.

You truly have no clue about this business if you honestly think pilots are overpaid. If a guy or gal makes it that 250K cushy job and can sit there a few years, good for them...they probably got furloughed, etc...more than a few times getting there...Uncle Sam will take his 40% to support your issues about spotted owls and tree-cutting.....dont you worry.

just another wanna be who thinks its some great "privelage" to fly an aiplane.......

Just what we need in this business.

 

[Anthony]

Gulfstream 200

Woke up this morning and decided to check this thread one last time......again disapointment.

Again, I don't condemn those who make large salaries. If a company can aford to pay a pilot a million dollars every week, heck, I'm all for that. My observation, however, is that most of those companies can't. And I don't understand how the one-ups-manship between pilots from UAL, DAL, etc, will help their cause or their respective companies, especially when they seem to be financially strapped.

About life being not fair......that is absolutely true. And I'm not on an unrealistic crusade to make it that way. And I don't wake up in the morning crying about those in Africa. I do, however, care about my fellow humans (all people) and will share what I have to help others........even you, my friend.

Your comment about not growing food in the desert is interesting and wise. Does that also apply to LA, SLC, ELP and all the other desert cities in this country that don't have their own water supply. Does that also apply to the U.S., who, by the way consumes over 50% of the Worlds basic resources (oil, lumber, etc), but only comprise less than 10% of the Worlds population. I don't consider myself a tree-hugger, just a responsible citizen.

I wouldn't dictate to anyone how they should live their life because I wouldn't want to be dictated to. I do, however, believe that common sense, restraint, and social responsiblitiy apply in many circumstances. If I,m about to step in a hole I would hope there would be someone there who cared enough to warn me, and not wait until I fell in then steal all my possessions. If they want them that bad I'm willing to share.

Believe it or not, I care about this country and want to see it thrive forever. Believe me, it won't if we continue to foster selfishness. I'm talking about the "I got mine, so screw you!" attitude.

If I ever end up working for one of the large airline companies I certainly would never fight against my fellow pilot or cross a picket-line. I also wouldn't hurt the company I work for, even if the few top execs are raking in over a million annually. I realize that one can't always have their cake and eat it, and one must take a stance sometimes. These are moments that require CREATIVE thinking and unconventional problem solving skills. Not moments where battle lines need to be drawn in the sand.

I realize I haven't walked in your shoes, but do you need to walk in Martin Luther King's shoes to understand the plight of the Black American in the 50's/60's. Do you need to walk in the shoes of a homeless person to understand their condition. For any person with a little World experience and open mind that's not necessary. One can extrapolate.

One last comment about your attitude towards military aviators. Do you truly believe that we have leached off the taxpayers. That hurts. I would like you to tell that to my two dead brothers who were shot down in their CH-47 in Afghanistan last month while they were protecting the freedom you enjoy. Tell them that the bullets that killed them weren't real because they weren't living in the REAL World. I guess the President and all other government workers are leaches as well.

My friend, for the sake of the airline industry and this country, I pray there aren't many like you.

AJ

 

[TriStar_drvr]

I'm not going to talk about pilot's attitudes, tree hugging or respect for military aviators. Instead, I'm going to talk about the myth of the 250k per year airline pilot.

How many of these are there? From reading the newspapers (and this board), one would believe that ALL major airline pilots make this kind of money. Nothing could be further from the truth.

First of all, approximately half of all pilots are First or Second Officers. Top pay for a copilot flying a widebody with twelve years of longevity is around $150 an hour. Multiply that by 75 hours per month and 12 months a year equals 135k per year. There, that covers half the pilots, and how many 12 year widebody FOs are there? Most FOs and SOs have less than 12 years longevity and are flying smaller equipment that pays less. A five year FO at Continental makes $100 an hour or $90k per year.

How about the 250-300k captain? I remember when UAL reached a tentative agreement with its pilots. The headlines screamed of pilots making $324 per hour. Guess what. That rate was for a 12 year 747-400 Captain at the last pay raise in the contract (May 2004). Heck, by 2004 UAL may not be flying many 747-400s. I have seen five of them parked at Victorville. Yes, that works out to 290k + but that is only for a handful of high seniority captains. The rest typically fly smaller equipment or work for other airlines that pay considerably less. A ten year Captain on the 737-800 at Continental makes $176 per hour or $158k per year.

The above are for those working at the large majors. Pilots working for airlines like Air Tran, ATA, Frontier, Spirit, Vanguard, etc. are paid considerably less than their counterparts at the majors. A $200k salary for pilots is unattainable at these airlines.

You can scream about the $250-300k pilots all you want, but realize that those who make amount are a small fraction of all airline pilots.

Finally, you must realize that all airline pilots are forced to retire at age 60. Thus, career earning potential is reduced over those in other careers who can work as long as they are physically able.