What would the first year at United be like?

[Dan Roman]

Long call is you answer phone 24 hours a day. When called you can be asked to show for an assigned trip in not less than 13 hours. You're released from on call to rest at the time of assignment.

Short call is a 14 hour period to answer phone with 10 hours not, each day. If called you can be asked to be at airport within 2 1/2 hours to be off the gate within 3 1/2 hours. Your FAA duty day starts at the beginning of the on call period.

That's the basics. Usually they'll give you more time. For instance you're on short call and they'll call you at 1600 and assign you an 8 am show and release you from being on call until then. There are many variations to what they can do (to say the least).

As I understand it, under the new regs, that will all go away? Apparently, all time on reserve will count as duty time as soon as you start your reserve. Anybody here well versed in the new regs?

 

[densoo]

As I understand it, under the new regs, that will all go away? Apparently, all time on reserve will count as duty time as soon as you start your reserve.

For short call only, no different than it is now. (This actually started in 2000). As I said in my post, "Your FAA duty day starts at the beginning of the on call period." If you get called 4 hours into your on call period you are already 4 hours into a duty period and can only be given an assignment that takes this into account. This is current practice and will continue to be so except the new duty day limits will apply, still counting all time already on call before the assignment. The only change is the callout period is going from 15 hours to 14 hours with the min time off between callout periods going from 9 to 10 hours. LCAL has already implemented this. LUAL will implement it in January.

Long callout reserves are not in FAA rest and cannot be called out directly from reserve to an assignment without an intervening rest period. They are just telephone available 24 hours a day during their reserve periods. If called, they then go into FAR rest before reporting for the assignment. Contractually it will be 13 hours.

This is really no change from what we currently do. The big change came in 2000 when the FAA determined that their Whitlow Rule applied to reserves. Before then reserves were on short call 24 hours a day and treated as though they were in continuous rest, and could be short called at any time into a full duty day. This article summarizes the change that took place in 2000,

http://blog.aopa.org/flighttraining/?p=2327

 

[BentOver]

As I understand it, under the new regs, that will all go away? Apparently, all time on reserve will count as duty time as soon as you start your reserve. Anybody here well versed in the new regs?

That's the way I had it explained to me. Making reserve at Hawaiian drastically different than it is now. Basically gonna have to have more windows and more coverage for our type of reserve callout. Anything less than roughly 8 hrs of duty left and even a short West Coast trip becomes impossible.

I'm not an expert on it, but that's how a more informed individual explained the cliff notes version to me.

 

[Andy]

T-1 Guy, make sure to get a Guard or Reserve job. Tricare Reserve Select will be a better deal for you in terms of health care costs. Plus being able to do mil drops. Plus the safety net of keeping the military connection in a very unstable business.

 

[Freight Dog]

Congrats T-1GUY! :beer:

 

[sat74]

For short call only, no different than it is now. (This actually started in 2000). As I said in my post, "Your FAA duty day starts at the beginning of the on call period." If you get called 4 hours into your on call period you are already 4 hours into a duty period and can only be given an assignment that takes this into account. This is current practice and will continue to be so except the new duty day limits will apply, still counting all time already on call before the assignment. The only change is the callout period is going from 15 hours to 14 hours with the min time off between callout periods going from 9 to 10 hours. LCAL has already implemented this. LUAL will implement it in January.

Long callout reserves are not in FAA rest and cannot be called out directly from reserve to an assignment without an intervening rest period. They are just telephone available 24 hours a day during their reserve periods. If called, they then go into FAR rest before reporting for the assignment. Contractually it will be 13 hours.

This is really no change from what we currently do. The big change came in 2000 when the FAA determined that their Whitlow Rule applied to reserves. Before then reserves were on short call 24 hours a day and treated as though they were in continuous rest, and could be short called at any time into a full duty day. This article summarizes the change that took place in 2000,

http://blog.aopa.org/flighttraining/?p=2327

I know some cargo guys that sit reserve 16 hours a day and get called out at the last minute to fly a 16 hour duty day to Asia. How do they get away with it, as it clearly does not comply with the FAA interpretation above?

 

[densoo]

I know some cargo guys that sit reserve 16 hours a day and get called out at the last minute to fly a 16 hour duty day to Asia. How do they get away with it, as it clearly does not comply with the FAA interpretation above?

From January 2013, AFL-CIO, Safe Skies Act,

The Air Line Pilots (ALPA) union is asking Congress to pass the Safe Skies Act of 2013, which would set one standard of fatigue rules for all pilots. Currently, under a rule issued by the Federal Aviation Administration last year, only passenger pilots are required to operate under flight- and duty-time limits that protect them from excessive fatigue and the possible dangers they face if they become too tired to properly fly their plane. Pilots who fly cargo planes currently operate under a weaker standard.

 

[sat74]

They fly supplemental Pax and cargo so still wonder how they get around this...

 

[sat74]

What did cargo airlines do before last year's ruling? Did they comply with the Whitlow Letter but are now exempt?

 

[densoo]

What did cargo airlines do before last year's ruling? Did they comply with the Whitlow Letter but are now exempt?

Don't know, but there seem to be two standards, and ALPA is trying to use FAR 117 as a pivot point to get everyone on one standard.

Safe Skies talking paper