Twa 800

[gkrangers]

9 pages later..the only thing I'm certain of is that LJDRVR is a dick.

 

[flx757]

9 pages later...

And I doubt anything has been "proven" in this discussion...nor do I think anyone's mind has been changed regarding what they believe is the "truth".

Kind of sums up this "discussion" as well as just about every other internet message board discussion, IMO.

 

[Ill Mitch]

But, Mary WAS clapping at the concert.

No one doubts that, but by the end of line of 100 people, she is going to have the clap and her eyes would have been gouged out by aliens from Area 51 who were seen mutilating some cows.

 

[atrdriver]

Wrong. "Factish"...but wrong. The assets used were the same that have been used to investigate military mishaps that lacked credible eyewitness reports and/or physical evidence (mostly mishaps at sea).

To be honest I'm not sure exactly who owns the assets or generates the tm data. I've seen it, studied it, and put it back in the safe (as a military Mishap Board member for a fighter lost at sea with no clue what happened).

My estimate is about 100 mishaps that have had "external data" provided by a government agency. It wasn't the CIA, and it wasn't the "first".

Got news for you. At the beginning of the video it states "animation by the CIA" or something to that effect. So tell me again that it wasn't the CIA???

 

[Clear-&aMillion]

TWA 800 was accidentally shot down by the US navy. It's no secret. From the moment the Navy realized what they had done, federal agencies were working night and day to recover the wreckage, and conceal from the public what had happened. They did this by conducting false investigations, forcing local agencies out of the area, stepping all over the NTSB, and threatening the media. That is the truth.

 

[LJDRVR]

9 pages later..the only thing I'm certain of is that LJDRVR is a dick.

You may be right, Greg.

I just got back from a two-day and read this whole stinkin' thread over. It occurs to me my demeanor was a bit overzealous. Everybody should believe whatever they like here; I have no desire to change anybody's mind.

Please understand there are two issues with the TWA 800 threads that get me all riled up.

• There seems to be thread of belief that a CWT explosion just couldn't happen. However, I lost my lap-swimming buddy and good friend Rob Wienman in 1989 when the CWT on the KC-135 he was co-piloting exploded at 5000' No fuel, just vapor. Digging through the accident databases reveal CWT issues are nothing new for Boeing. I tend to take it a bit more personally than I should, but Boeing CWT's have been exploding since 1961.

• I distrust my government as much as the next person, but it always puzzles me when people look at an accident like TWA 800, read some expert opinions from some outside expert source that contradicts the conclusions of those that actually performed the investigation, and believe the theorists instead. The NTSB is an incredible organization filled with smart, driven people whose only desire is to get at the truth and prevent loss of life. As I posted earlier, they are warriors for the truth, and we are all well served by them. Being a Human/Factors and Safety Systems guy, I again, tend to take it more personally than I should when somebody suggests that people as fine as those that make up the NTSB, would lie, obfuscate and falsify their work for any reason at all. They simply could not. Of course at the end of the day, it is a probable cause,

Well, that's it in as small a nutshell as I can make it. My sincere apologies to anybody I harangued, offended or otherwise beat up. It sure is fun to have a pissin' and moanin' internet fight isn't it?

 

[Annie]

Dear LJDRVR:

Like you, I once loved an industry. I loved it soo much that I could not see when it was vulnerable.

I once believed that NO university accrediting body, would give approval to any academic program, that did not measure up to, or surpass, any curriculum that had established itself as successful. I WAS WRONG! The accrediting agencies that approve our university programs today, are just rubber stamps. I am sorry, but that is FACT. When I look at this situation, as it exists in academia, and I step over to the aviation industry--I wonder how the NTSB has survived the same period of time--untouched? Unruffled by the threats? EACH INVESTIGATOR UNTHREATENED?

 

[FN FAL]

No one doubts that, but by the end of line of 100 people, she is going to have the clap and her eyes would have been gouged out by aliens from Area 51 who were seen mutilating some cows.

don't forget about the black helicopters that were seen following her around that day.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

You may be right, Greg.

I just got back from a two-day and read this whole stinkin' thread over. It occurs to me my demeanor was a bit overzealous. Everybody should believe whatever they like here; I have no desire to change anybody's mind.

Please understand there are two issues with the TWA 800 threads that get me all riled up.

• There seems to be thread of belief that a CWT explosion just couldn't happen. However, I lost my lap-swimming buddy and good friend Rob Wienman in 1989 when the CWT on the KC-135 he was co-piloting exploded at 5000' No fuel, just vapor. Digging through the accident databases reveal CWT issues are nothing new for Boeing. I tend to take it a bit more personally than I should, but Boeing CWT's have been exploding since 1961.

• I distrust my government as much as the next person, but it always puzzles me when people look at an accident like TWA 800, read some expert opinions from some outside expert source that contradicts the conclusions of those that actually performed the investigation, and believe the theorists instead. The NTSB is an incredible organization filled with smart, driven people whose only desire is to get at the truth and prevent loss of life. As I posted earlier, they are warriors for the truth, and we are all well served by them. Being a Human/Factors and Safety Systems guy, I again, tend to take it more personally than I should when somebody suggests that people as fine as those that make up the NTSB, would lie, obfuscate and falsify their work for any reason at all. They simply could not. Of course at the end of the day, it is a probable cause,

Well, that's it in as small a nutshell as I can make it. My sincere apologies to anybody I harangued, offended or otherwise beat up. It sure is fun to have a pissin' and moanin' internet fight isn't it?

I do not doubt that the NTSB is made up of skilled professionals who want to find out the truth. However, they can only determine the "truth" based on the evidence that is made available to them. The bottom line is that evidence was held private by the FBI that could possibly have swayed the NTSB's conclusion on this, such as the shrapnels of metal found in the bodies of the victims. There is absolutely no reason for the FBI to withhold such evidence in a crash unless some sort of criminal activity was involved that they do not wish for the public or the NTSB to know about.

 

[414Flyer]

I do not doubt that the NTSB is made up of skilled professionals who want to find out the truth. However, they can only determine the "truth" based on the evidence that is made available to them. The bottom line is that evidence was held private by the FBI that could possibly have swayed the NTSB's conclusion on this, such as the shrapnels of metal found in the bodies of the victims.

So they did not have access to the remains of the 747 either?? Thats a bit hard to swallow.