Trans States Classes

Nevets

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Nevets you are really, really dense. CQFOs only fly in the left seat when there is not a qualified Captain available, otherwise they fly in the right seat. Nobody's rights are being violated. In fact, if any FO that meets qualifications puts in a bid for Captain, they are paid Captain pay if they are not awarded a class within 60 days if any CQFO is flying.

This has been expalined over and over to you on other websites.

Like I said. Nobody here has a problem with this. It's not your concern. Move on.

You are not understanding my point. There is an artificial 3500 hour requirement. Your current FOs who don't have that time but do have their ATP and 1000 hours of 121/135 time are being passed up for upgrade and thus their seniority. But let me ask you this, is the 3500 hours a contractual requirement or is it in your FOM? Also, has it EVER been reduced? Can you answer those questions?

By the way, I think you have me confused. The only other discussion I've had with TSA guys is about their below average contract. That is on the apc forum. I don't read every single post on that thread, only the replies to my posts. Here, I'm only taking about seniority being trumped.
 
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TheRaven

Runway Sweeper 3rd Class
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Jan 18, 2003
Posts
208
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14000+
3500 is what TSA wants it at, as that's what they pay for in their insurance policy.....they could lower it to 3000 or FAA minimums but their insurance costs would increase. For the sake of this discussion the 3500 is a hard number and not artificial.
 

no1pilot2000

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This is going to make a good movie. Where's the popcorn when you need it???
 

SpauldingSmails

Aboard the sloop.
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Alright, I'm going to have my conniption now.

Stop saying, "artificial minimums." Every hour requirement on earth is made up by a person or persons - even ones from the FAA. Company imposed, additional, insurance, excess, supplemental, non essential... whatever - but for effs sake there are no "minimums occurring in nature."

Ok. Rant off. I'm much better now, thanks.
 

tjsatter

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Jan 15, 2002
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I'm an FO at TSA with double+ time needed for upgrade, with the first CQFO class having started this past week that means I get Captain's paychecks starting from 60 days (Feb 1). I'm happy. Take your sweet-ass time with a classdate, don't care; I'm building paychecks not time anymore. and when class date does comne it's at Captains payrates
 

Nevets

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Oct 22, 2007
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3500 is what TSA wants it at, as that's what they pay for in their insurance policy.....they could lower it to 3000 or FAA minimums but their insurance costs would increase. For the sake of this discussion the 3500 is a hard number and not artificial.


Alright, I'm going to have my conniption now.

Stop saying, "artificial minimums." Every hour requirement on earth is made up by a person or persons - even ones from the FAA. Company imposed, additional, insurance, excess, supplemental, non essential... whatever - but for effs sake there are no "minimums occurring in nature."

Ok. Rant off. I'm much better now, thanks.

All I'm saying is that it's an artificial company minimum because not everyone has those minimums. For example, at xjt, the only minimums is FAR minimums. If TSA is so cheap that they don't want to pay some supposed insurance premium, than I would definitely be more upset if I was an FO wanting turbine pic time ASAP. Plus, it's another thing that speaks volumes about TSA.
 

livin'thesim

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.
Because nothing is more important than upgrading a bare-minimum flight time FO!!!!
 

Nevets

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Because nothing is more important than upgrading a bare-minimum flight time FO!!!!

An ATP, a type rating, and 1,000 hours of 121/135 is not a bare minimum FO. Anyway, if you have a training department that is competent, it will do a good job of helping them get through or holding them back until they are ready. The point is that your seniority should give you the opportunity to upgrade. This is circumventing their opportunity.
 

tjsatter

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even a bare minimums FO takes more time than many FOs TSA already have. Now it takes an ATP to get hired, 3-4 months to get trained/typed/online and then 1-2 years to get that 1000 121 time required for a "bare minimums" 2500 hour. We have many FOs below even this threshold. and consider that a couple years ago they were hiring 500 hr FOs add another couple years to the mix and there could be 3 year FOs lacking the minimums for "bare minimum". In the meantime the compnay is growing, lots of planes coming and somebody is needed to fly the things until all the FOs get these "bare minimums" hence CQFOs. it's simple math not a judgement call
 

TheRaven

Runway Sweeper 3rd Class
Joined
Jan 18, 2003
Posts
208
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14000+
All I'm saying is that it's an artificial company minimum because not everyone has those minimums. For example, at xjt, the only minimums is FAR minimums. If TSA is so cheap that they don't want to pay some supposed insurance premium, than I would definitely be more upset if I was an FO wanting turbine pic time ASAP. Plus, it's another thing that speaks volumes about TSA.
I'd be pretty upset if they were putting paying passengers in an aluminum tube 7 miles above the earth at 450 knots and the Captain had barely 1500 hrs. There is more to being a Captain than seeing who can log 1500 hrs fastest....the 3500 hr rule at TSA seems to ensure some real FAR 121 experience occurs before they turn someone loose as a CA.
 

Nevets

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Posts
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even a bare minimums FO takes more time than many FOs TSA already have. Now it takes an ATP to get hired, 3-4 months to get trained/typed/online and then 1-2 years to get that 1000 121 time required for a "bare minimums" 2500 hour. We have many FOs below even this threshold. and consider that a couple years ago they were hiring 500 hr FOs add another couple years to the mix and there could be 3 year FOs lacking the minimums for "bare minimum". In the meantime the compnay is growing, lots of planes coming and somebody is needed to fly the things until all the FOs get these "bare minimums" hence CQFOs. it's simple math not a judgement call
The ATP rule went into effect on August 1, 2013. Meaning that all TSA FOs on property as of that date, were required to have an ATP/1500 hours. If all the FOs at TSA had the bare minimum of 1500 hours at that time, that's almost 17 months to get the required 1,000 hours of 121 time, assuming they had zero hours of 121 time before August 1, 2013. I think its safe to assume that most FOs meet the FAA requirement.

I'd be pretty upset if they were putting paying passengers in an aluminum tube 7 miles above the earth at 450 knots and the Captain had barely 1500 hrs. There is more to being a Captain than seeing who can log 1500 hrs fastest....the 3500 hr rule at TSA seems to ensure some real FAR 121 experience occurs before they turn someone loose as a CA.
This is not about that though. Anyway, the captain would have 2500 hours, 1000 of which would be 121 time at TSA, presumably in the ERJ145 since I don't think you have another type. This is about fake minimums.
 
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