Trans States Classes

tjsatter

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It's been said that they will need more captains than there are FOs on the seniority list. To me it looks like a way to pay the pilot in the captain seat first year pay rather than the upgraded FO 3+year pay while at the same time being circumvented on the list.
yeah and it's a way to get a lot more than your standard FO when working that seat
 

tjsatter

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That was my only point. Your company is setting artificial minimums when the only one that is mandated by the FAA is 1,000 hours of previous 121/135 time. That's a really good way to piss off FOs that otherwise meet faa minimums to be captain.
well, insurance companies are involved as well. Those details are not open to me. Total time required is 3500. it's a simple calculus really; got the time get upgraded. the company does not have a lot of flexibility to reduce these hours much. I'm aware of 3 year FOs on property that lack the times needed. When they do get the time they will upgrade and likely skip the reserve part as they then jump ahead of all those junior Captains that do have the time

reread the OP; Not aware that a "sale" of planes per se is what's involved here. I think it's more a transfer of leases (?) some kind of high-finace shenanigans not sure that there's anything there that could be blocked
 
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altimaklr

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Classes running every two weeks, as many people they can get. Based on sheer numbers anyone hired in the next 100#'s should hold CA. Denver base projected to be the junior base.
 

Nevets

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yeah and it's a way to get a lot more than your standard FO when working that seat

Then it must speak volumes of the quality of FOs on property.

well, insurance companies are involved as well. Those details are not open to me. Total time required is 3500. it's a simple calculus really; got the time get upgraded. the company does not have a lot of flexibility to reduce these hours much. I'm aware of 3 year FOs on property that lack the times needed. When they do get the time they will upgrade and likely skip the reserve part as they then jump ahead of all those junior Captains that do have the time



reread the OP; Not aware that a "sale" of planes per se is what's involved here. I think it's more a transfer of leases (?) some kind of high-finace shenanigans not sure that there's anything there that could be blocked

No such insurance requirements at xjt. Why would an insurance company see TSA pilots as more of a risk?

Anyway, I'm not sure what you are trying to say on your second paragraph as it relates to artificial upgrade minimums.
 

20sx

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Be on reserve indefinitely in BOTH seats. That's not brutal.
I wouldn't think reserve would last more than a year (which is tough, don't get me wrong). But they are going to more than double their fleet, which should get a new Captain a line near the end of their growth.
 

SpauldingSmails

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Then it must speak volumes of the quality of FOs on property.




No such insurance requirements at xjt. Why would an insurance company see TSA pilots as more of a risk?

Anyway, I'm not sure what you are trying to say on your second paragraph as it relates to artificial upgrade minimums.

Many airlines have stipulations regarding "insurance minimums" - XJT is likely the exception rather than the rule. My previous carrier did, it was in the FOM - and that was even when it was a wholly owned subsidiary of NW/DL.
 

rjacobs

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No such insurance requirements at xjt.
We self insure from what I know which means we can do what we want.

TSA insures through a 3rd party. If their insurance mandates the total time requirement, no way to get around that. TSA does have a 2:1 allowance up to a certain amount when time is flown in TSA planes. This reduces the 3500 hours TT requirement for those on property already.
 

Indy319FA

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Current FOs here are not upset over the CQFO because they do not have the time to upgrade. The company will hire enough CQFOs to make sure they have enough people qualified to upgrade. No FOs will get bypassed. As they get the minimums they will upgrade. End state will have All the FOs on property now plus the CQFOs upgraded when all the aircraft arrive. We have two full classes of CQFOs this month, and have already filed a class for next month. Plenty of Expressjet (sorry Nevets), Envoy, Republic and Endeavor guys filling the classes.

The main factor driving this is the donut hole on the TSA seniority list. There are four guys on the list from 9/2007-4/2012 (one is the DO). Many of the low timers hired in 2012 still have a ways to go to have the time for upgrade, and many hired in 2013 and 14 are still working on total time and the 1000 hours of 121 time.

Don't listen to Nevets. He's been completely discredited on other message boards. CQFO is a good opportunity for those that have the qualifications to upgrade but have a long wait in their present postion. Nevets is on a personal crusade against Trans States and facts are optional for him. He knows nothing about the company or our contract even though he spouts off like he does.

CQFOs will have the ability to bid for Captain just like anybody else when they finish training. Those who get in early will likely get bids to Captain quickly as Trans States has many FOs that do not meet requirements. Most recent upgrade class had 2/13 hires.
 
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Indy319FA

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It's been said that they will need more captains than there are FOs on the seniority list. To me it looks like a way to pay the pilot in the captain seat first year pay rather than the upgraded FO 3+year pay while at the same time being circumvented on the list.
You know this is crap Nevets. No one is getting bypassed that is qualified.
 

Indy319FA

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I see it as a way to get FOs and fill in as CA only when minimally necessary. Think about it, nobody wants to go there as an FO so they offer this program. Now they have new qualified FOs that are told they may get some PIC. Anybody would be foolish to consider this. Captain is one thing, but this two seat deal really lowered the bar.
CQFO has nothing to do with FO hiring. We have been filing new hire classes with no problem. Trans States CBA does not allow for the hiring of street Captains. This is to protect the seniority of the FOs on property as they will upgrade ahead of any CQFOs when they have the time.
 

Indy319FA

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anybody know anything about when more new hire classes will begin for trans States and what airplanes will be trained on? Also is there any possibility of the sale of 14 ERJ's to trans states being blocked?
No sale involved. Skywest (Expressjet management) chose not to renew the leases on these aircraft with United. United put them back up for bid and Trans States was awarded the bid. And it is 36 aircraft not 14.
 

Nevets

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We self insure from what I know which means we can do what we want.

TSA insures through a 3rd party. If their insurance mandates the total time requirement, no way to get around that. TSA does have a 2:1 allowance up to a certain amount when time is flown in TSA planes. This reduces the 3500 hours TT requirement for those on property already.

We don't self insure for hull loss and loss of life. No one does.


Current FOs here are not upset over the CQFO because they do not have the time to upgrade. The company will hire enough CQFOs to make sure they have enough people qualified to upgrade. No FOs will get bypassed. As they get the minimums they will upgrade. End state will have All the FOs on property now plus the CQFOs upgraded when all the aircraft arrive. We have two full classes of CQFOs this month, and have already filed a class for next month. Plenty of Expressjet (sorry Nevets), Envoy, Republic and Endeavor guys filling the classes.

The main factor driving this is the donut hole on the TSA seniority list. There are four guys on the list from 9/2007-4/2012 (one is the DO). Many of the low timers hired in 2012 still have a ways to go to have the time for upgrade, and many hired in 2013 and 14 are still working on total time and the 1000 hours of 121 time.

Don't listen to Nevets. He's been completely discredited on other message boards. CQFO is a good opportunity for those that have the qualifications to upgrade but have a long wait in their present postion. Nevets is on a personal crusade against Trans States and facts are optional for him. He knows nothing about the company or our contract even though he spouts off like he does.

CQFOs will have the ability to bid for Captain just like anybody else when they finish training. Those who get in early will likely get bids to Captain quickly as Trans States has many FOs that do not meet requirements. Most recent upgrade class had 2/13 hires.

Look, what I'm saying is that current FOs are not being upgraded while someone off the street is. All because of some artificial qualification.

As for your contract, I stand by what I said. I listed all the items that are below average and average. Only a couple of items were corrected and despite that, it's still below average. No one rebutted me on any of those things I listed. I asked for information on other items which may actually bring you up to average and no one person responded. So unless you want to tell us about those items, it's you and all other TSAers who have no credibility. If you did, you would admit it isn't above average. Hopefully you will be able to set the bar.


You know this is crap Nevets. No one is getting bypassed that is qualified.

That's my point. It's an artificial requirement. The only faa mandated requirements are an ATP and 1000 hours of 121 or 135 time or a combination thereof. That is not crap. That is fact!
 
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Nevets

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If I'm misunderstanding what a CQFO is and their purpose, then I'll apologize. But unless these pilots are only sitting in the right seat (FO), then it's circumventing seniority because of a non-faa requirement.
 

Indy319FA

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Really Nevets you need to get a life. The fact is you are in a contract industry. Your company does not own any flying United does. Why don't you spend your time trying to get to a job that is not outsourced work then you don't have to worry about anybody else outbidding you for flying.

Until mainline pilots decide to put this flying back at mainline flying where it belongs, regional flying will continue to be churned (just like ground ops) so they can keep longevity and cost at a minimum.

If you decide to stay in the contract flying game, you constantly face the possibility of someone else outbidding you for flying. It is what it is. Get your time and get out.
 
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Indy319FA

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If I'm misunderstanding what a CQFO is and their purpose, then I'll apologize. But unless these pilots are only sitting in the right seat (FO), then it's circumventing seniority because of a non-faa requirement.
Nevets why do you care? This is for TSA pilots to worry about. TSA pilots on property knew what the upgrade minimums were when they were hired. No one is complaining about this but you. CQFOs exist so that the seniority rights of FOs on property will not be violated. CQFOs are offered a blended rate in the right seat as a guarantee that they will not lose income by coming here because it is above the highest FO pay grade for most airlines. It has been explained to you over and over again on other message boards but you are either too dense or too stupid to get it. This is really getting old. Get over this and move on.
 
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Indy319FA

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Look, what I'm saying is that current FOs are not being upgraded while someone off the street is. All because of some artificial qualification.
No one is being upgraded "off the street". CQFOs will not be upgraded until they put in and are awarded a Captain upgrade.
 

TriStar_drvr

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This is CQFO part II. This was done in the early 2000's as well.Lots of guys where flying as Captain.
Might be CQFO part III. This was also done in 1995 when I was hired at Trans States.
 

Nevets

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Really Nevets you need to get a life. The fact is you are in a contract industry. Your company does not own any flying United does. Why don't you spend your time trying to get to a job that is not outsourced work then you don't have to worry about anybody else outbidding you for flying.

Until mainline pilots decide to put this flying back at mainline flying where it belongs, regional flying will continue to be churned (just like ground ops) so they can keep longevity and cost at a minimum.

If you decide to stay in the contract flying game, you constantly face the possibility of someone else outbidding you for flying. It is what it is. Get your time and get out.

This has nothing to do with what I posted.

Nevets why do you care? This is for TSA pilots to worry about. TSA pilots on property knew what the upgrade minimums were when they were hired. No one is complaining about this but you. CQFOs exist so that the seniority rights of FOs on property will not be violated. CQFOs are offered a blended rate in the right seat as a guarantee that they will not lose income by coming here because it is above the highest FO pay grade for most airlines. It has been explained to you over and over again on other message boards but you are either too dense or too stupid to get it. This is really getting old. Get over this and move on.


No one is being upgraded "off the street". CQFOs will not be upgraded until they put in and are awarded a Captain upgrade.

Ok, so if CQFOs are not being trained to be captains, then they will only fly as FO? That doesn't sound like what I've read. If they will fly as captains, and there are current FOs on your seniority list that meet FAA minimums, then it absolutely tramples their seniority, even if you disagree.

Anytime you have pilots that feel their seniority has been trampled (flow back situation or seniority list integration), it sometimes makes for an unpleasant flight deck environment.
 

Indy319FA

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This has nothing to do with what I posted.








Ok, so if CQFOs are not being trained to be captains, then they will only fly as FO? That doesn't sound like what I've read. If they will fly as captains, and there are current FOs on your seniority list that meet FAA minimums, then it absolutely tramples their seniority, even if you disagree.

Anytime you have pilots that feel their seniority has been trampled (flow back situation or seniority list integration), it sometimes makes for an unpleasant flight deck environment.
Nevets you are really, really dense. CQFOs only fly in the left seat when there is not a qualified Captain available, otherwise they fly in the right seat. Nobody's rights are being violated. In fact, if any FO that meets qualifications puts in a bid for Captain, they are paid Captain pay if they are not awarded a class within 60 days if any CQFO is flying.

This has been expalined over and over to you on other websites.

Like I said. Nobody here has a problem with this. It's not your concern. Move on.
 
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