TA vote predictions

wms

billSquared
Joined
Sep 4, 2003
Posts
2,052
Total Time
10500
Speaking of Comair:

-The three CEOs involved in it's eventual demise had no emotional or financial interest in Comair.
-Comair wasn't a drop in the bucket of DAL's total assets, revenue or operation.
-As Comair wound down DAL maintained ownership of much of the fleet and those planes were farmed out to other operators with DAL still getting revenue from them.
-Dissolving Comair allowed DAL to eliminate the overhead associated with it without suffering loss.

XJT:

-Is SKYW's largest asset.
-SKYW is almost all of JA's wealth.
-Skyw,inc cannot farm out XJT flying the way DAL did with Comair. It would have to surrender that flying with penalties outlined in the CPA, or let contracts simply expire over time.
-There is no other carrier with the resources or staffing to absorb XJT flying.
-JA is a shrewd businessman and will find a way to make money with XJT no matter its labor costs. He's not in the business of losing money, and SKYW is successful with higher labor costs than XJT.
-After there is an acceptable TA, not this one, SKYW will show XJT with a profit as books are realigned.
-Combined XJT cost $500b, and allowing it to fail will cost Skyw.inc everything before its shareholders and the financial world.

All regionals will shrink as a result of economic and staffing conditions as flying is reallocated to mainline. Those who stay here will have the best contract in the industry while working for a much smaller, better run company. The rest will acheive their goals of moving to the majors with the shift in capacity and increased vacancies.
 
Last edited:

Gulf-front

"Gone Fishing"
Joined
Dec 12, 2007
Posts
86
Total Time
8000
Some will see the light and vote NO! (Oh and no train puns)
 

jetstream

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Posts
279
Total Time
11000
Speaking of Comair:


All regionals will shrink as a result of economic and staffing conditions as flying is reallocated to mainline. Those who stay here will have the best contract in the industry while working for a much smaller, better run company. The rest will acheive their goals of moving to the majors with the shift in capacity and increased vacancies.
I agree. I believe that in five years we will be half the size we are now and flying only CRJ 700/900. Staffed by the top 50% of the seniority list. If you are senior you are safe, If you are junior get out asap.
 

Freebrd

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Posts
2,665
Total Time
44,000
But but Brad say we be a 500 plane fleet as the World's Largest Regional!
 

Erlanger

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 4, 2002
Posts
1,693
Total Time
13000+
Actually, as an employee of INC, it does concern me. Also, I never said one way, or the other, how I personally feel about the TA. I just said how I think the vote will go....
You're a SkyWest dispatcher. Yes, I guess you're an "INC" employee. Nice spin.
 

homerjdispatch

Gods gift to dispatch
Joined
Jul 21, 2003
Posts
1,250
Total Time
a lot
You're a SkyWest dispatcher. Yes, I guess you're an "INC" employee. Nice spin.
My point being, the outcome affects me too... Not as directly as a pilot for Expressjet, but it does affect me, nonetheless. And Im not sure why you all are being asses about me asking the question. I havent said how I feel about this at all...
 

Leroy Smith

The Masochist
Joined
Jan 22, 2006
Posts
178
Total Time
runout
I havent said how I feel about this at all...
So:
As a SKW dispatcher - someone on the outside looking in but with knowledge of the company, understanding of the CBA/RLA process and a vested interest in the outcome; how do you feel about it?
 

ASApuppy

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 29, 2001
Posts
334
Total Time
10K
So, I'm trying to figure out what the play is here in this big chess game. We all know this contract is a cut in pay. Mostly in soft credits for the ASA side and retirement funds for the XJT side. But, I don't understand fully why this got sent to us. This seems like a low ball offer. Both sides agree to that. I also understand that, legally, the MEC must recommend to you to vote for it if it sends it to the population to vote on.

What I am most reserved about from this deal has been how the union is acted so far. Compared to our contract in '07, we are in the dark. Back then we were polled all the time (5 times for me personally), had a strike vote, had some idea what was going on. Now, we are in the dark. Our CNC chair got fired, our Union guys are all but silent, other than to say "ASA is not taking the cuts, XJT is". Now I hear rumors that our Negotiating Comm member is actually sleeping with an XJT attorney. WTF? Putting the contract aside, the method in which we got here absolutely sucks. There are a lot of good guys that do ALPA volunteer work, and I appreciate it greatly. On the other hand, those that we elected to do this work have failed me in a very big way.

So, back to the original thought....What is the play here? If we vote this down, then what? Brad was in the ATL crew lounge serving Turkey last week. He said they will wind this place down if we don't accept this deal. Then he sends out charts on how our contracts up for renewal are up for the next 5 years. Personally, I believe that the pilot shortage is for real and that alone will cause us to shrink over the next 5 years. People need to start lining up at the door of flight schools today in order to be ready for the airlines in 4 to 5 years. That is not happening. So, what's managements play here? If we vote yes, I'm sure Brad will get a 7 figure bonus. I don't think it will win us new flying. Again, it will be a matter of what we can hire. Is the play to eventually offer us Skywest's current pay structure and have us think we beat it out of them? Brad was asked about whether or not they offered our union the Skywest package and he beat around the bush, but eventually admitted as much.

In a time of record profits, I just cannot sit on the front lines and take a cut in pay. I do believe we are being unfairly squeezed by the mainline partners. They need to pay more. $1.3B per quarter? Our best help will come from the smallest of the regionals start closing doors. How long before that happens?

Offer us this:

One Airline
One Contract, no carve-outs
One path, forward
 

Clutch

Hi, I'm William Devane
Joined
May 27, 2011
Posts
1,242
Total Time
.
So, I'm trying to figure out what the play is here in this big chess game. We all know this contract is a cut in pay. Mostly in soft credits for the ASA side and retirement funds for the XJT side. But, I don't understand fully why this got sent to us. This seems like a low ball offer. Both sides agree to that. I also understand that, legally, the MEC must recommend to you to vote for it if it sends it to the population to vote on.

What I am most reserved about from this deal has been how the union is acted so far. Compared to our contract in '07, we are in the dark. Back then we were polled all the time (5 times for me personally), had a strike vote, had some idea what was going on. Now, we are in the dark. Our CNC chair got fired, our Union guys are all but silent, other than to say "ASA is not taking the cuts, XJT is". Now I hear rumors that our Negotiating Comm member is actually sleeping with an XJT attorney. WTF? Putting the contract aside, the method in which we got here absolutely sucks. There are a lot of good guys that do ALPA volunteer work, and I appreciate it greatly. On the other hand, those that we elected to do this work have failed me in a very big way.

So, back to the original thought....What is the play here? If we vote this down, then what? Brad was in the ATL crew lounge serving Turkey last week. He said they will wind this place down if we don't accept this deal. Then he sends out charts on how our contracts up for renewal are up for the next 5 years. Personally, I believe that the pilot shortage is for real and that alone will cause us to shrink over the next 5 years. People need to start lining up at the door of flight schools today in order to be ready for the airlines in 4 to 5 years. That is not happening. So, what's managements play here? If we vote yes, I'm sure Brad will get a 7 figure bonus. I don't think it will win us new flying. Again, it will be a matter of what we can hire. Is the play to eventually offer us Skywest's current pay structure and have us think we beat it out of them? Brad was asked about whether or not they offered our union the Skywest package and he beat around the bush, but eventually admitted as much.

In a time of record profits, I just cannot sit on the front lines and take a cut in pay. I do believe we are being unfairly squeezed by the mainline partners. They need to pay more. $1.3B per quarter? Our best help will come from the smallest of the regionals start closing doors. How long before that happens?

Offer us this:

One Airline
One Contract, no carve-outs
One path, forward

I think the threat that we will wind down is a legitimate one seeing as we are winding down now at this very moment. The question to ask is if ExpressJet winding down is inevitable no matter what TA is in place.
 

enuffalready

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 7, 2005
Posts
607
Total Time
4000+
I think the threat that we will wind down is a legitimate one seeing as we are winding down now at this very moment. The question to ask is if ExpressJet winding down is inevitable no matter what TA is in place.
this is the same BS the mainline guys swallowed. The 50's are going away anyway. They are getting old and not being built anymore. They are going away, we are going to shrink. they can say that because it is true, but it will happen whether we vote this turd in or not.

If vacation low and 4 consecutive CDO's are the difference between us closing or not then we are Fvcked anyway.

not to mention you ( brad) negotiate a terrible contract with united that we get penalties for brake release with no movement and we pay huge penalties... so then you work it into our new contract to fix your( Brad) fvck up. Um no. Fix it yourself. and yes... you can still suck it
 
Last edited:

ASAFOE120

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 12, 2002
Posts
353
Total Time
11000
If they want cost savings, they need to merge us with SKYW and get rid of all the duplication. They wouldn't need two scheduling dpts. Two dispatch dpts. Two payrolls dpts. Two benefit dpts. Two travel dpts. Etc... Not to mention all these presidents and vp's of this or that.

They need to do that, then show me they can't turn a profit. Then MAYBE I would think about helping them out.

The legacy airlines are making record profits. If Inc cannot get XJT profitable (I think we already are) then they need to seek more lucrative contracts with other "partners" or throw in the towel.
 

Clutch

Hi, I'm William Devane
Joined
May 27, 2011
Posts
1,242
Total Time
.
If they want cost savings, they need to merge us with SKYW and get rid of all the duplication. They wouldn't need two scheduling dpts. Two dispatch dpts. Two payrolls dpts. Two benefit dpts. Two travel dpts. Etc... Not to mention all these presidents and vp's of this or that.

They need to do that, then show me they can't turn a profit. Then MAYBE I would think about helping them out.

The legacy airlines are making record profits. If Inc cannot get XJT profitable (I think we already are) then they need to seek more lucrative contracts with other "partners" or throw in the towel.
It's as simple as Stop the Whipsaw or don't. I choose to stop it.
 

Mercyful Fate

Get yo purple drank on yo
Joined
Jan 27, 2006
Posts
2,487
Total Time
A lot
If they want cost savings, they need to merge us with SKYW and get rid of all the duplication. They wouldn't need two scheduling dpts. Two dispatch dpts. Two payrolls dpts. Two benefit dpts. Two travel dpts. Etc... Not to mention all these presidents and vp's of this or that.

They need to do that, then show me they can't turn a profit. Then MAYBE I would think about helping them out.

The legacy airlines are making record profits. If Inc cannot get XJT profitable (I think we already are) then they need to seek more lucrative contracts with other "partners" or throw in the towel.
How do you propose they merge a union shop with a non-union shop?
 

enuffalready

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 7, 2005
Posts
607
Total Time
4000+
How do you propose they merge a union shop with a non-union shop?
i dont care how... thats what known as a them problem.... I duty in, fly, duty out. Even if given great advice or info they will do whatever they choose anyway.
 

ASAFOE120

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 12, 2002
Posts
353
Total Time
11000
How do you propose they merge a union shop with a non-union shop?
I really don't care how they do it. Majority vote. Own in house union. Whatever.

And the SKYW side has done pretty good without alpa (even before they bought us).

And it would be nice to have the $1624.95 they have taken from my earnings this year. I bet I could spend it better than they have!
 

Mercyful Fate

Get yo purple drank on yo
Joined
Jan 27, 2006
Posts
2,487
Total Time
A lot
i dont care how... thats what known as a them problem.... I duty in, fly, duty out. Even if given great advice or info they will do whatever they choose anyway.

I would disagree that it is a them problem..They didn't vote in the union, you guys did.
 

Clutch

Hi, I'm William Devane
Joined
May 27, 2011
Posts
1,242
Total Time
.
Propose to vote in Skywest's contract across the board and alpa out. Problem solved. I don't care if their contract is worse.
 

ASApuppy

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 29, 2001
Posts
334
Total Time
10K
How do you propose they merge a union shop with a non-union shop?
Per the Labor laws, I believe it would be an all pilot vote hosted by the NMB. Option 1, ALPA. Option 2, non-union. All ASA, XJT, and SkyWest pilots would be allowed to vote, even the new-hires.

The only other path would be a grassroots effort inside ASA or XJT to hold a decertification vote (like US Airways did). They voted in a new union, but I think the option exists for no union.

ALPA is becoming as popular as Obama. If given a vote to change that, I'm not so sure they would remain. I personally would vote no union over ALPA. I am grateful for some of the services they have provided me over the years, but I don't think they have a place in the regional industry. If we could all the sudden be immune from the Railway Labor Act, then all this changes and the Union will have a leg to stand on.
 
Top