SWA LGA Captain Fired

[scoreboardII]

I learned how to be a better pilot by flying with the BA captains, just saying.

 

[glasspilot1]

As for "bid avoid"

I don't believe in it. And what happens when you do it, or call in- I get not wanting to put your own ticket at risk- but we need strong FOs to fly with these pilots, not reserves.
That's just how I feel about it. Somebody has to fly with them, why shouldn't I share in the pain and do what I can to make sure the airline's safe.

One reason I can think of, if a Captains no fly list gets long enough, he/she will get an invitation to the Chief pilots office. The company will be aware.

 

[nordo_2]

One reason I can think of, if a Captains no fly list gets long enough, he/she will get an invitation to the Chief pilots office. The company will be aware.

This puts the problem where it belongs: Management. They may still sweep it under the rug. As was done in this case.

 

[HowardBorden]

This puts the problem where it belongs: Management. They may still sweep it under the rug. As was done in this case.

I disagree, it really is a pilot problem. Pilots need to make complaints to professional standards if there is a question of safety of flight. The problem with high avoidance bid captains is often a personality problem. I really don't want management anywhere near correcting personality deficiencies because it is at best a very subjective matter.

If pro standards receives enough complaints about a pilot deviating from company procedures or FAR's then there should be a process set in place to correct those deficiencies or THEN recommend disciplinary action.

I have flown with several pilots way up the avoidance bid list (I have never used avoidance feature when bidding) in many cases I found them to be just fine individuals to fly with. They may not be the most brilliant conversationalists or in some cases display a less than optimal attitude or demeanor but in my experience their flying skills are not what has placed them near the pinnacle of the avoidance bid list.

 

[densoo]

If pro standards receives enough complaints about a pilot deviating from company procedures or FAR's then there should be a process set in place to correct those deficiencies or THEN recommend disciplinary action.

"Should" is the key word. Most pro standards have no ability to do as you suggest. All they can do is inform the pilot of his problem. It's a catch-22 though--the pilots who need a pro Stan discussion are the very pilots who could care less what they or the pilots they fly with think.

 

[densoo]

One reason I can think of, if a Captains no fly list gets long enough, he/she will get an invitation to the Chief pilots office. The company will be aware.

Some places. I heard at one airline they call the offending pilot in to discuss if there was any way they could "help" since their avoid list was long. At CAL they absolutely could care less. If they called in every pilot who had dozens of avoids they'd be doing nothing but talking to offending pilots all day every day.

A silver lining to the LGA incident is that now that the managements know that this "avoid list issue" will likely be part of the bad publicity following an incident they might actually start looking into it at their own airlines.

 

[metroplex]

Jump up ^ Lunsford, J. Lynn (2000-08-02). "Southwest Airlines Fires Pilot, Co-Pilot Involved in Burbank, Calif., Crash.". Knight Ridder/Tribune Business News. "The airline fired the pilots after completing an internal investigation of the March 5 crash of Flight 1455, which was the first major accident in Southwest's 29-year history."


The NTSB released a transcript of the cockpit voice recorder, in which the flight's captain was quoted as saying, "Well, there goes my career," moments after the accident.[4]

 

[BeachBummer]

Chicago was tough

Burbank... ?? Crossed the threshold with the flaps blown up so...
That's where her case will be...what was the process and final decision with them. Albeit, Burbank is why we have the go around culture we do now.

As for "bid avoid"

I don't believe in it. And what happens when you do it, or call in- I get not wanting to put your own ticket at risk- but we need strong FOs to fly with these pilots, not reserves.
That's just how I feel about it. Somebody has to fly with them, why shouldn't I share in the pain and do what I can to make sure the airline's safe. Unless you think more incidents like LGA are good for your long term career

Respectfully... Because a pilot is on RSV does not make them a weak pilot. Lots of professional RSV guys out there.

Paid by the minute, go around go around go around!

 

[waveflyer]

True-
But it usually makes them junior and maybe real new to the company and less likely to stand up to dbag capt- not all reserves, but a lot.
How willing are you to make waves on probation?

I don't not fly anything I feel like flying bc of who I'm flying with- check airman, BA, personality conflict- whatever- we're supposed to be pros here

 

[humveedriver]

In the LGA case, this was leg 2 of day one. How much do you know about the person you are flying with? FO kept his job. That's really all I need to hear. That retraining can be anything from the sim to classroom instruction. And is more for demonstration purposes (not really a whole lot of training going on). Fly the plane, state your intentions to the other pilot (if the situation warrants it) and get it all on the CVR. If the captain wants to go into business for him or herself, there isn't a whole lot you can do once the plane is in the air. Sometimes folks get really fixated on only one part of the problem and need a little help to see what else is happening. I bet this LGA gal was fixated on the approach end of the runway. As long as you're barking " too steep, go around, airspeed, too high" you will live to fight another day (i've seen some very poor choices but never felt my life was in danger, in either seat).I find the whole thing unfortunate. But it's part of what we do.