Smoking Pilots

[trainerjet]

Re: Re: Re: trainerjet

Get out!!! I've never heard of an Alaska pilot losing their job. I remember when I ramped for UAL during college, I knew I was close to baggage claim by the cloud of smoke coming out of Alaska Airlines 'nicotine free airline' ramp crew room! Maybe over the years they have clamped down a bit. Honestly the rug getting jerked...good one.....for popping a chew or having a puff.

As is so typical due to the level of (non) intelligence that runs rampant on this board, you have completely and totally missed the point I was making...WOW BIG SURPRISE THERE.

I don't have the inclination to explain it. Again. So, take it however you want and think whatever you must.

In fact, I think this is as good a time as any to say adios to you all. I feel this board has run it's course of being useful, and don't think I have anything left to contribute (that's assuming I ever contributed anything at all), or think I have anything left to gain as a participant. If anything changes, maybe I'll be back. In the mean time...

Good luck to everyone. So long.

 

[Mr Hat]

Look, I am just sick and tired of these liberal close minded jerkoffs imposing their way of life on everyone else. In there little PC world people should speak a certain way, look a certain way and live their lives a certain way....anyone who goes against THEIR grain should be ostrocised until they comply. The same people who stopped toy manufacturers from selling toy guns because REAL guns are bad and we need to save the children. The same people who while they hate smoking cigarettes, would LOVE to make marijuana legal because its less dangerous than alcohol! The same people who are hindering our search for terrorists because they feel that EVERYONE, including terrorists have certain rights in this country! The same people who bomb abortion clinics because they think that killing an abortion doctor is ok but their rally cry is "Every life is precious!". The ones that went after a high school freshman because she saw that her school had an "Afro-American" "Latino" and "Asian" club so she started a "Caucasian" Club and was labled a racist! They dumb down this country and try to make it so safe for children that they create this Disney World society....well F their society! They ban video games, music lyrics and nudity on TV to save the children when we all know that those things are not the root of the problems in this country (although PC folk are afraid to admit that they actually do live in a dangerous world where you actually have to watch you're back) Do you know what the smoking ban is doing to the economy in NYC? People arent going out anymore! Bars are going under because people would rather throw a party at home where they can smoke and drink in peace. There used to be steak and cigar bars, they are also going under! How many non-smokers do you think went there? It should be a choice, not a law. These people rely on squed statistics to back up their claims, most of which are BS. Why is it that PC people cant live and let live. They claim to be open minded, loving and caring about everyone, the truth is that they only care about themselves and their fuc*ed up idea of what society should be.
I'd like to refer you guys to watch the next season of "Penn and Tellers Bullsh*t" on Showtime. They are really the ones who opened my eyes to the second hand smoke lie. I researched it on my own only to find out that, yes its true that those statistics are false and that the threat of second hand smoke is nowhere near as dangerous as people believe. http://www.davehitt.com/facts/


P.S. I never said I smoked.
My point is that while there is are so many other things in this world to worry about, why are you worring about what the other guy is doing.

 

[Freightdog75]

Mr. Hat:

That was one of the best posts I have ever seen on this site!!! I'm right there with you on all of that(except on being a smoker) .

FD75

 

[CatYaaak]

That sounds great, but it's not exactly true.

Second, inasmuch as some behaviors cost society as a whole, society has a right to voice an objection. Off the top of my head I can see two ways that smoking costs society as a whole. First, the burden imposed on the government in dealing with the results of smoking is passed on to the taxpayer -- US. (I'm not happy with that arrangement, but that's another subject.) Second, the burden imposed on insurance underwriters is passed on to the policy holders that pay increased premiums or enjoy reduced benefits.

Actually, it's been proven that smokers save "society" money. Smokers pay "sin taxes" every time they buy a pack, they pay higher medical and life insurance premiums than non-smokers to cover costs when they are alive, and most importantly, they die (on average) 4 years earlier than your average non-smoker, thereby collecting 4 years' worth less of Social Security, Medicare, etc. etc. Looking at the whole picture, smokers easily cover their costs to this nebulous "society" you speak of. Which brings us to the major flaw in your equation;

In order to hold the belief that a smoker's death somehow "costs" money, one must also believe that because one is a non-smoker, they are not only immune to sickness, but in fact...immortal. This is not the case, of course, and in fact a smoker usually has on average 3 fewer lengthy (and very expensive) hospital stays the last years prior to death than a non-smoker. This is because lung/throat cancer is fairly deadly the first time around. The vast, vast majority of medical costs are incurred just before death...and everyone dies, including non-smokers. They rack up the same huge medical costs and expenses as the smoker did....but they will do it more times during those extra 4+ years of life.

You say "society has the right to voice an objection if a behavior costs society as a whole (according to flawed equations of "cost")". I'm assuming the behaviors you refer to are voluntary, and not necessary ones. Well, if the Nanny State is in full swing, let's find some other people we can demonize;

Obese, fat, overweight people (and from the looks of more and more of them, some pilots must pencil in "Dozen Crispy Creme Donuts" on their Before Engine Start checklist).
Tanned sunbathers (death by melanoma isn't pretty)
People who ride bikes on busy roads with no shoulder (if it's so good for your health, why do they wear those silly little helmets?)
Anyone who buys beer, cable TV, internet service, health club memberships, Pay-per-view wrestling, or $100 tennis shoes while whining about not having health insurance.
People who don't take 1 Flinstones vitamin every single day.

And lastly, Type A high-blood-pressure-heart-attack candidates who live to work out and mousse their hair, and then stress-out about what other people are doing, such as lighting up. They usually don't drink coffee either (another "bad thing" in their world), and are completely useless in a cockpit after about 9PM since they're half asleep since they woke up at 6AM to go "hit the gym" at the hotel.

 

[CatYaaak]

There are a minority of pilots addicted to nicotine (chain smokers) and regarding that there are certain things that really peeve me regarding this behavior.

You're gonna make a great, nagging wife for someone someday.

 

[CatYaaak]

.. because it is a proven fact that every cigarette you smoke takes an average of SEVEN minutes off your life. Or, maybe you shouldn't.......Darwin at work....the species gets stronger.

I hope that "7 minutes off your life" thing is true, because if it is I must have died about 5 years ago, which means I can come and haunt you at your house (blowing Ghost-smoke along the way).

Oh, and I seriously doubt...given your obvious hyper-sensitivity to a few measly smoke particles and the stressed-out condition it creates...you represent a "strong" example of our species. As a matter of fact, it sounds like you need to get the heII out of the real world with all it's particles and germs and other icky things, and become a Boy in a Bubble. You could even continue preaching and pontificating from within your sterile, anteseptic little world.

But one day, Bubble Boy, you'll expire too. And when you're wired up to life support in the hospital after your 4th coronary (or if your body holds out, in your dotage spending useless years with CRS disease in a nursing home), nobody's going to be giving you "Attaboys" for not smoking now. Nope, you'll be just as sick as a smoker and just as dead in the end.

Ah well, I'll see you in heII.

 

[TonyC]

Actually, it's been proven that smokers save "society" money.

I'm sure we'd all be interested in seeing those statisitics.

In order to hold the belief that a smoker's death somehow "costs" money, ...

I don't think you heard me correctly - - I never said a smoker's death "costs" money. It is my contention that a smoker's smoking leads to larger expenses due to illnesses -- it's the life that costs us. Your statistics not withstanding, I'm inclined to maintain that belief. If you can disprove that, I know of a few folks I'm going to encourage to take up the habit.

The vast, vast majority of medical costs are incurred just before death...and everyone dies, including non-smokers. They rack up the same huge medical costs and expenses as the smoker did....

Same huge medical costs? I find that claim highly improbable. Many, I'd venture most, of our healthier seasoned citizens depart this world with little fanfare and little cost.

You say "society has the right to voice an objection if a behavior costs society as a whole (according to flawed equations of "cost")". I'm assuming the behaviors you refer to are voluntary, and not necessary ones. Well, if the Nanny State is in full swing, let's find some other people we can demonize;

I said "voice an objection," you said "demonize." Who's being objective here?

If you object to overeating, sunbathing, bike rides, beer drinking, TV watching, or orating on an Internet forum, object away. It IS your right, protected by the Bill of Rights to our Constitution. That's right, it's your right. Find a group of folks that think the same as you, and you can organize your voices to make them seem louder. Say what you want (almost) about those issues - - it's a protected right.

What is NOT your right, as I originally stated in my post, is being able to kill yourself anyway you like. Nowhere will you find THAT right in the same Constitution. Smoking is legal, and you can smoke without fear of legal penalty (as long as you're of age) but it is not a RIGHT.

 

[Fly2Scuba]

Just took the Gleim CFI Renewal Course

and straight out of the Professionalism section of a lesson...

Common courtesy is perhaps the most important of an instructor’s personal habits. A rude, thoughtless, or inattentive flight instructor cannot hold the respect of the student regardless of how neat (s)he is or how good (s)he smells.
I. However, personal grooming and appearance are still very important to a flight instructor’s professional image and effectiveness.
A. The cockpit of a typical training airplane is a very small place, and a lack of grooming on your part can easily reduce the effectiveness of a training session to zero, especially on a hot summer day.
1. You should remember that it is not in most people’s nature to bring up the subject of unpleasant odors with others. Your students will probably not mention this subject to you, so it is important that you pay particular attention to it yourself.
2. Think about what you eat (e.g., an onion burger or garlic pasta) during your work day and how you smell.
B. Your appearance must be that of a professional for you to be as effective as possible. Professionals are expected to be neat, clean, and appropriately dressed. If you ignore these standards, you do so at the risk of a diminished professional image.

I do feel bad for those with unhealthy addictions, however at some point you have to decide whether your addiction takes warrant over the comfort of others, or whether you all-kidding-aside you just want to do whatever **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** well you please.