Rumor... NJA... Rumor

[old*art]

There's an old saying in the real estate world about deals .... pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered.

 

[Ultra Grump]

QOL isn't always measured by how much one makes or how much time one gets off each month. It's measured by how one feels when they go to work each day.

No, QOL is measured by how one feels when they are OFF work, influenced greatly by how much time one gets off each month, and how much one makes. Funny how that works.

Their silence speaks volumes.

It's called sulking.

 

[Ultra Grump]

The rates were set to cover current inflationary trends.

Thanks for helping make my points. 1) If the increases do match inflation, we are stagnating in buying power. Why do you find that so hard to recognize? 2) "Set to cover current inflationary trends." Have you been paying attention to economists such as Alan Greenspan lately? "Current inflationary trends" have been very low the last 10 years. This will most likely NOT continue. This TA does not cover the last 10 years, it covers the next 10 years. I am glad you are so comfortable with having no increase in buying power year-over-year. I'm not.

I doubt those slated to receive thousands of dollars in a signing bonus consider that "stagnant buying power".

The signing bonus will only last so long. What is a $25,000 bonus worth over the length of a 9-year contract? Not a whole lot of buying power there. Why do you refuse to recognize that longevity increases of "current inflationary trends" equates to no real yearly raise at all?

The fact is that everyone will get more money if IBB passes and many will get a QOL bump. 5 yr PICs could end up making over 90K more thru 2012 and new hires could earn over 120K more in those years.

Nobody is disputing that there is a pay bump. What I am disputing is that you say it is enough to offset the concessionary changes to the contract. I believe it is not enough, and certainly not enough to lock into a 9-year deal.

The TA includes a small portion of the Wilson survey data and analysis. One line about section 27 caught my eye:

"Crewmembers were willing to modify most other parts of the CBA based on pay increases."
​

Unfortunately, "most other parts" were modified, not in a positive way, and we did not get enough in trade.

 

[dillfer]

What a bunch of winers. I've never heard of so many people b!tch about a raise.

 

[GerryG]

The only observation I'm going to make is very simple. The majority of the posts are coming from those at NJ and Options. The ongoing issues with contracts appear to always be stirring the pot and creating some type of "issue" giving pilots something to complain about and create a distraction.

All the other fracs that have no represention are very quiet on these boards. Could it be that these folks are relatively content and that in reality they are really better places to work BECAUSE there is no representation on the property? They might not make as much money, and maybe the perks might not be so great as those appear to be with contracts but there is something to be said for the silence from them.

QOL isn't always measured by how much one makes or how much time one gets off each month. It's measured by how one feels when they go to work each day.

Their silence speaks volumes.

Come on Bob you can do better than that. I mean have you actually talked to any CS or Flex pilots lately? The ones I've talked to are all complaining about the rash of predatory HR practices that have been taking place lately. Apparently, without representation pilots are often called on the carpet for the smallest infractions.

No Bob these guys aren't happy. They are just scared. But you know all about FEAR don't you? Or is Uncertainty your thing, I forget.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Gutshot,
Not to be a smart ass, but your mangement is blowing something up your backside. The language is huge and from the response I got from mangement when I questioned them on it the other day, I would say they are serious.

It isn't merger language, it is amount of international flying language.

Did you see the "Yeah, right" comment on my post??

I KNOW they are blowing sunshine.

As I understand it, unless 1108 pilots are doing 85% of trans-oceanic flying by a certain date (2012 or 2013 I think), the IBB agreement cannot be extended the aditional 3 years. The only way that number can be achieved is for NJI to become an 1108 shop.

On the other hand, RTS may be planning to NOT extend the agreement the extra 3 years and doesn't care whether the 85% target is met thereby keeping NJI a non-union shop.

What I don't know, and maybe someone can answer, is whether this language will pre-empt a filing next November. It could be that BOTH sides recognize that the legal avenue would be costly and destructive with no better than a 50-50 shot for either side and this is a gradual, face-saving way to integrate the seniority lists over the long term.

All I DO know is that NJI management is keeping any information they do have on the issue very close to the vest.

 

[B19 Flyer]

No, QOL is measured by how one feels when they are OFF work, influenced greatly by how much time one gets off each month, and how much one makes. Funny how that works.
It's called sulking.

Don't agree. QOL is 24/7.

QOL is based on what happens when you are AT work more than when you are off work because it allows balance. If you can't wait to get off work, then you are in the wrong career.

 

[Ultra Grump]

Don't agree. QOL is 24/7.

QOL is based on what happens when you are AT work more than when you are off work because it allows balance. If you can't wait to get off work, then you are in the wrong career.

Problem is, riding mountain bikes, waterskiing, and making love to my wife don't pay very well. Gotta do something to pay the bills. I don't live to work, I work to live.

 

[netjetwife]

....
As I understand it, unless 1108 pilots are doing 85% of trans-oceanic flying by a certain date (2012 or 2013 I think), the IBB agreement cannot be extended the aditional 3 years. The only way that number can be achieved is for NJI to become an 1108 shop.

On the other hand, RTS may be planning to NOT extend the agreement the extra 3 years and doesn't care whether the 85% target is met thereby keeping NJI a non-union shop. That possibility was considered and the language includes financial penalties in the event that route is chosen. It's a formula so it sounds like it could be expensive in application. I was told that's the idea.

What I don't know, and maybe someone can answer, is whether this language will pre-empt a filing next November. There's nothing in writing, but your guess seems logical to me. It could be that BOTH sides recognize that the legal avenue would be costly and destructive with no better than a 50-50 shot for either side I agree with this viewpoint/speculation. and this is a gradual, face-saving way to integrate the seniority lists over the long term. Here, our views change slightly. I don't see it as face-saving as much as reputation saving. The owners won't be pleased if the brand name is sullied in a messy, public court case. That's not the image NJA/I pilots strive for is it? Having read the penalty language in the 85% clause, I didn't get the idea that the integration would be drawn out over a long time period. It sounds like it was written to make it cost-prohibitive for RTS to back out of the deal.

All I DO know is that NJI management is keeping any information they do have on the issue very close to the vest.

Perhaps they don't want to hear lots of complaining and/or questioning regarding a decision they can do nothing about? So they'll tell the pilots just before hand, not months in advance? I'm just guessing, but I don't think your need to know your future is as high a priority to them as theirs is right now. The pilots will all be integrated and keep working, but will the managers? They may be too preoccupied with figuring out the details to share them just yet. Regardless of the reason being in limbo is difficult and I wish you and your fellow NJI pilots the best.
NJW

 

[RTRHD]

Perhaps they don't want to hear lots of complaining and/or questioning regarding a decision they can do nothing about? So they'll tell the pilots just before hand, not months in advance? I'm just guessing, but I don't think your need to know your future is as high a priority to them as theirs is right now. The pilots will all be integrated and keep working, but will the managers? They may be too preoccupied with figuring out the details to share them just yet. Regardless of the reason being in limbo is difficult and I wish you and your fellow NJI pilots the best.
NJW

I wonder what the owners are going to say????? No flame intended.