Please help, need medical ASAP!!

[Midnight Flyer]

Oscum's Razor, if you want to be totally honest, you might want to start checking the box on your Medical application (box letter "o") where it asks yes or no for alcohol dependence or abuse. Everybody knows that pilots are some of the biggest drinkers around. (I know there are exceptions out there, so if you fall in that group, no need to make a post about it) In my years of flying, on long layovers, nearly 100% of the guys I've flown with have "abused alcohol" during the layover. According to dictionary.com, "alcohol abuse: excessive use of alcohol and alcoholic drinks."
My point is that if we all started checking the alcohol abuse box on the application, then we'd all be getting calls from the FAA and start loosing our medicals. The FAA dosen't take that stuff lightly and they don't have a sense of humor.

 

[FL420]

Man, this thread is depressing me and I'm a happy guy. To realize there are so many people sharing the airspace with us who don't seem to have an ethical bone in their bodies boggles my mind. I wonder if some of you advising this guy to lie about his medical history are the same people who pop out of a cloud right in front of you to the surprise not only of you but also to ATC since they weren't on an instrument flight plan nor were they squawking(happened to me.) I have known at least one guy who routinely flies his MU-2 above FL180 with lights and transponder off. Your rationalizations sound like his.

Rant over. Practically speaking, I used to have a co-pilot who in a previous career had been the SAN ATC tower controller who had called the C-172 as traffic to the B-727 crew of PSA 182 in September, 1978. PSA reported the traffic in sight shortly before they collided. You history buffs will recognize this accident as the one credited with the implementation of the sterile cockpit rule. It also helped with the creation of more TCA's, the forerunners of today's Class B airspace.

This guy was required by the FAA to get post-accident counseling. He was understandably crushed and hoped maybe it would help him deal with his feelings so he agreed. I don't believe any anti-depressant drugs were involved at all.

He eventually lost his enthusiasm for an ATC career and began a career as a pilot. He was a very nice guy and very conscientious. He wasn't eager to talk about the accident but was up front about it and his role in it. He would talk to me about it because I had flown in the Navy with 4 of the PSA pilots who died in the crash. I did not blame him at all for their deaths.

After building enough hours in the right seat of a Navajo, he got on with a commuter(sorry, regional) in California. He had been with them several years when the FAA abruptly revoked his medical for not disclosing on his medical application the counseling he had received years earlier as an ATC controller. Counseling that was provided by and required by the FAA. It turns out a co-worker who didn't like him turned him in.

I found out about this sometime after the fact and tried to encourage him to fight this totally capricious action by the FAA but the fight was gone out of him by this point. He decided to move on in another direction. It was his choice but not the choice I would have made.

I would recommend that before seeking a new medical that you obtain quality professional advice. The AOPA legal department is good as is Pilot Medical Solutions. A very strong favorable letter from your treating AME is essential. It is a battle that can be won but taking the easy way out by concealing it could well bite you in the butt later when you least expect it or can afford it.

 

[PAPA FOX!]

Oscum's Razor, if you want to be totally honest, you might want to start checking the box on your Medical application (box letter "o") where it asks yes or no for alcohol dependence or abuse. Everybody knows that pilots are some of the biggest drinkers around. (I know there are exceptions out there, so if you fall in that group, no need to make a post about it) In my years of flying, on long layovers, nearly 100% of the guys I've flown with have "abused alcohol" during the layover. According to dictionary.com, "alcohol abuse: excessive use of alcohol and alcoholic drinks."
My point is that if we all started checking the alcohol abuse box on the application, then we'd all be getting calls from the FAA and start loosing our medicals. The FAA dosen't take that stuff lightly and they don't have a sense of humor.

I think you said it very well. Another scenario is when it askes you:

1) Eye or vision trouble except glasses
2) Dizziness or fainting spells


Does that mean that when someone was riding a bike as a kid and a bug flew into their eye and temporarily caused blurred vision that someone has to report that?

If some pilot was taking part in a little league tradition where two contestants put their forehead on a bat and circle it a number of times to see who can stand it the longest and they get dizzy does this have to be reported?

I think everyone here gets my drift. If this is the litmus test that a lot of pilots are guilty of falsifaction. Surely common sense dictates otherwise however.

 

[Midnight Flyer]

Man, this thread is depressing me and I'm a happy guy. To realize there are so many people sharing the airspace with us who don't seem to have an ethical bone in their bodies boggles my mind. I wonder if some of you advising this guy to lie about his medical history are the same people who pop out of a cloud right in front of you to the surprise not only of you but also to ATC since they weren't on an instrument flight plan nor were they squawking.

You're missing the point. I can't speak for anyone else on here, but I'm not advocating people to be unsafe, fly with chest pain or fly while taking meds. Just because I said that in my opinion, it is unwise to tell your AME that you are or were depressed does not mean that I do not follow FAR's when I fly.
You're talking about 2 different things.

 

[avbug]

Oscum's Razor, if you want to be totally honest, you might want to start checking the box on your Medical application (box letter "o") where it asks yes or no for alcohol dependence or abuse. Everybody knows that pilots are some of the biggest drinkers around. (I know there are exceptions out there, so if you fall in that group, no need to make a post about it) In my years of flying, on long layovers, nearly 100% of the guys I've flown with have "abused alcohol" during the layover. According to dictionary.com, "alcohol abuse: excessive use of alcohol and alcoholic drinks."

This has passed the point of absurdity.

The thread was founded on the concept of regaining medical certification following clinical diagnosis and treatment of a mental disorder and the use of psychotropic or mood altering drugs.

It is not about a one time overuse of alcohol. NO comparison here at all.

Incidentally, I'm one of those few...I don't drink, never have, don't intend to.

The poster has been diagnosed and treated for depression, and the guidelines are clear. No reason exists why the poster should not have a medical certificate, and this is easily demonstrated to the FAA. Further, once it's demonstrated, it need never be an issue again. The only further documentation will be checking the box, and in remarks stating "previously reported, no change."

As a chronic asthmatic I was denied a medical certificate. I jumped the hoops, took it to Oklahoma city. Now, along with another condition, I check the box and state, "Previously reported, no change." I never have to worry about it again. It's a done deal. It's not something that could be used against me, not something over which a 250,000 dollar fine and a potential prison sentence for fraud and falsification might be hanging over my head, it's handled.

This poster has the same opportunity. Do it right the first time. I'm forever amazed at the slanted mentality of those who go through life looking for loopholes. Always trying to find another way. The regulation is clear, the method for clearing this situation is clear, and help is available. The poster has been given correct counsel, to which any further information will not help.

No one here can help the poster. The poster needs to seek proper direction, and has expressed his intent to do so, first through AOPA, and second from leftseat.com. Further arguing about the point is well, pointless.

And no...a night of heavy drinking, or the occasional drink, does not constitute reportable chronic alcohol abuse, nor would it result in a clinical assessment of alcohol abuse.

 

[Guitar rocker]

That is very surprising. Either two things must have happened in your friends case. One is that his depression must have been pretty debilitating or two, he must have gone to the wrong AME. From what I hear, most AME's will issue you a medical provided you are off meds and have a supporting letter from your treating doctor stating you are stable and pose no risk to flight safety. According to FAR 67 depression alone is not disqualifying when medication is not being used. If you are depressed and need to see a psychiatrist w/o meds you are in the green. If you don't need psychotharapy but need meds then obviously you are not permitted to fly.

I am not sure about all his circumstances. I'd have rattle his cage some.

 

[Midnight Flyer]

This has passed the point of absurdity.

The thread was founded on the concept of regaining medical certification following clinical diagnosis and treatment of a mental disorder and the use of psychotropic or mood altering drugs.

It is not about a one time overuse of alcohol. NO comparison here at all.

Incidentally, I'm one of those few...I don't drink, never have, don't intend to.

The poster has been diagnosed and treated for depression, and the guidelines are clear. No reason exists why the poster should not have a medical certificate, and this is easily demonstrated to the FAA. Further, once it's demonstrated, it need never be an issue again. The only further documentation will be checking the box, and in remarks stating "previously reported, no change."

As a chronic asthmatic I was denied a medical certificate. I jumped the hoops, took it to Oklahoma city. Now, along with another condition, I check the box and state, "Previously reported, no change." I never have to worry about it again. It's a done deal. It's not something that could be used against me, not something over which a 250,000 dollar fine and a potential prison sentence for fraud and falsification might be hanging over my head, it's handled.

This poster has the same opportunity. Do it right the first time. I'm forever amazed at the slanted mentality of those who go through life looking for loopholes. Always trying to find another way. The regulation is clear, the method for clearing this situation is clear, and help is available. The poster has been given correct counsel, to which any further information will not help.

No one here can help the poster. The poster needs to seek proper direction, and has expressed his intent to do so, first through AOPA, and second from leftseat.com. Further arguing about the point is well, pointless.

And no...a night of heavy drinking, or the occasional drink, does not constitute reportable chronic alcohol abuse, nor would it result in a clinical assessment of alcohol abuse.

I should have known at some point Avbug would show up in this thread trying to save the day with some long "be-all and end-all" type post. Ok, here we go.

Avbug: This thread has passed the point of absurdity to you because you're not the guy who is risking the potential loss of his medical and a challenging and tiresome battle to get it back.
The majority of pilots that I've seen in my career drink like the dickens when they're on the road, and I'll be willing to bet that they do it when thye're off, too. That's called alcohol abuse. Not that it's important in this discussion or not, but I personally drink as much as the next pilot does. In my opinion, anything more than about 4-5 drinks in one sitting is excessive, so if you've done that within the past 12 calendar months, you have to put that on your medical that you've used alcohol or alcoholic drinks in excess..or...that you've abused alcohol. The FAA dosent care if you've abused it one time or if you habitually abuse it. Remember, the FAA has no sense of humor when it comes to this type of thing.
It didn't suprise me when you made your comment above about you not drinking. I'm not suggesting that people who drink are better than people who choose not to drink, however, it does fit your persona of being so straight laced. Maybe if you'd loosen up and have a drink every now and then, you wouldn't be so straight laced and high strung on this message board. There's more to life than flightinfo.com, Mr. "I-comment-on-every-thread-ever-posted" guy!!! Anyway, Im not looking to have a pi$$ing contest with you or anything Avbug, but sometimes your posts get under my skin, that's all.

Anyway, I think we can all help "the poster" (by the way, "the poster" as you call him has a name, it's Brandon.) Ultimately, he'll do whatever he wants, and there has been some people advocating him to disclose all history to the FAA and there are some people saying to not tell the FAA anything. Basically, Brandon will do what is right for him. I personally hope he just fixes his situation with a regular doctor, then checks all the "NO" boxes on his medical application, so he can then graduate. Simple as that.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Flyer,

The difference between having a few drinks, and Brandon's issue is a medical diagnosis.

Agree?

Start a thread on drinking, and we can all weigh in, but I think it's a little weasely to try to connect it to this situation. There's no gray area here. Once the doctor gives you the prescription and you pop the first Wellbutrin/Zoloft/etc., it's a "YES" in the block.

I'm a little troubled by your comment, "Brandon will do what is right for him."

I agree with you that all of us should practice good self-care, and it appears he has by seeking help...but I'm not sure breaking the law and lying is "right for him".

 

[avbug]

I should have known at some point Avbug would show up in this thread trying to save the day with some long "be-all and end-all" type post. Ok, here we go.

Actually, brightspark, I was one of the early posters in this thread, twice, and the information I posted there was true, and correct. No one on this board can help the poster. I counseled him to seek professional help, to not fraudulently or falsely state he does not have the condtion under discussion, and noted that he can easily get the situation rectified.

I also noted in this thread that I have had disqualifying conditions (two) which no do not plague me, because I handled the situation properly. I noted that the poster needs to do the same, and that no apparent reason exists why the poster cannot have his medical privileges restored.

The poster agreed, and as I just stated in the above post, will follow that course of action. The poster intends first to seek help through AOPA member services, and then via Pilot Medical Soloutions at www.leftseat.com.

Perhaps you need to read the thread a little more carefully before spouting off. No, I didn't wait until the last minute. No I made no effort to "save the day." No, I am not posting in ignorance of the original posters plight or future...as the issue or disqualifying conditions and the reporting thereof is something I have dealt with personally, and which I report faithfully every 6 months on my own first class medical application.

The comparison of a few social drinks, or even a night of excessive drinking, to a clinical diagnosis of a mental or emotional condition with attendant treatment by a professional and the use of chemical mind or mood altering drugs, is a poor one at best, and in truth, a pathetic effort to cloud the issue. Worse, the effort to cloud the issue is driven toward encouraging the poster to place himself in jeopardy by falsifying a federal document, thereby committing fraud, to the tune of a quarter of a million dollars in fines, five years in prison, and revocation of all certificates and ratings. How the FAA finds out isn't important...the fact that the FAA might, that the poster would know and have to live with that unpleasant possibility, and that it's ethically and morally incorrect, are all pretty darn good reasons to do it right in the first place.

W(h)eather you agree or not, it's a fact.

 

[oilcanbland]

Man, this thing got out of hand. I think I've reached one conclusion from all of this. MEDICALS SUCK!