FedEx Seat Bid BIG (Part2...since some [Moderator] moved it to Cargo)

[active_herk]

Junior guy in last class at FedEx - 4324

Junior ANC MD-11 F/O on practice bid - 4313

Talk about some quick movement! (Although I am inclined to believe TonyC...I don't think the company is going to want guys that junior in the MD-11)

There could also be some major changes in the actual bid.

 

[PurpleTail]

The practice bids carry absolutely no weight whatsoever. I don't even know why the company even bothers. At least there is only one practice bid now instead of two. All I know is that I'm going to be a heck of a lot more senior in MEM than I am in LA.

I'm still in shock though that a new hire can hold a WB MD11 award, EVEN IF IT IS JUST A PRACTICE BID, and the caboose gets a 72 right seat spot. I also second TonyC's prediction that ANC secondaries will be reduced.

Now I see why the company wants to break out the pay per aircraft, it would definately realign things.

 

[Mr Zog]

Food for thought, when we had the big Postal Bid at the end of 2000/beginning of 2001. There where initial new hires still in training that were awarded MD-11 seats in both MEM and ANC. So this is not something new to the company. Has the company not filled all the secondary vacancies in ANC before? YES. Either way I think there will be a clean up bid prior to the most junior individuals going to training (so they will end up holding it then, if not now). This training cycle, in my opinion, will take over one year.

 

[altscap]

With all the slots you guys have opening up, any ideas on getting an interview without having to offer up my mothers left kidney??

 

[Mr Zog]

As far as breaking up the pay. That poses some interesting dilemmas. Do DC-10 crewmbers make the same as MD-11/MD-10? MD-10 and DC-10 are the same plane, basically. If so then shouldn't the Airbus guys get the same pay as the DC-10 guys since they are both basically domestic, both are widebodies, and payloads are very comparable? Now we are back to the same pay rates. Or do MD-11 lines get payed differently than MD-10 lines? What an accounting nightmare... My opinion, if the company wants senior people to fly the MD-11 international routes, pay a higher international override. To me that solves the problem the easiest way. Now when the 380 comes on property that is a different story. I say $380 for Captain of the A-380.

 

[TonyC]

As far as breaking up the pay. That poses some interesting dilemmas. Do DC-10 crewmbers make the same as MD-11/MD-10? MD-10 and DC-10 are the same plane, basically. If so then shouldn't the Airbus guys get the same pay as the DC-10 guys since they are both basically domestic, both are widebodies, and payloads are very comparable? Now we are back to the same pay rates. Or do MD-11 lines get payed differently than MD-10 lines? What an accounting nightmare... My opinion, if the company wants senior people to fly the MD-11 international routes, pay a higher international override. To me that solves the problem the easiest way. Now when the 380 comes on property that is a different story. I say $380 for Captain of the A-380.

I don't know if you've noticed, but the DC-10/MD-11 is a bit larger than the other "widebody" in our fleet, the Airbus. What Jack Lewis would like to see is a progression from SO to 727 FO to A300 FO to MD-11/DC-10 FO to 727 Capt to A300 Capt to MD-11 Capt. I know that's what he wants because he told the entire MD-11 Flex Instructor group that we should counsel pilots to progress in that order. HA!


Right now there is no pay distinction to separate the Airbus from the MD-11. If he wants progression in that order, he needs to pay more on the MD-11. Further, if he wants guys to leave the comfort of the MD-11 right seat to command a slave ship, there needs to be a more significant pay differential. As it is, most guys would rather work 2 extra days in the electric jet than live a life of 5-leg nights of hubturns.

Short of dictating through contractual language a specific order of seat progression (something I do not think will ever happen) the only was to achieve the desired flow is to build a money trail. Show me the money. If he wants guys to take a stab at 727 Captain before they Captain big iron, raise the rates. If he wants the most experienced pilots manning the MD-11s, raise the rates. Want the most-senior Captains on the MD-11? Raise the rates, and watch the older guys flock trying to build their high five.

The second major factor that has to be examined is scheduling. Who wants to go to Anchorage? Well, apparently not enough of the 4324 pilots to fill the slots without dipping into the new hire class. ANC has a reputation of getting rotten lines that are not commuter friendly. Every pilot up there has a story of a screwed-up trip where they had a Memphis RFO along on a primo pairing. Every pilot has seen bidpack comparisons between Memphis flying and Anchorage flying. Deadheads, days off, live legs - - you name the statistic, the ANC pilot takes it on the chin every single month. Bang 'em over the head long enuogh, and they'll finally give up, and leave the flying to someone more junior. How do we fix that? Fix the schedules. It's not the location -- the location is great. It's not the commute -- the commute is tolerable. It's not the people -- the people are THE best. It's the schedules, and they can be fixed in ONE month. You want to attract senior people to ANC? Build them schedules worth commuting to.

 

[ilinipilot]

I have a question. Why would you want a progression as vast as S/O to F/O to F/O to F/O to F/O then to CPT to CPT to CPT.

I know it gets more senior people in the bigger planes but that is a lot of training and a lot of moneyspent training. I know they are making money hand over fist but that is a lot to spend.

Just wondering

 

[yahoo]

Holy passover pay Batman!

I had heard about the widebody captain numbers...had no idea about all the F/O slots we needed too (on top of the secondaries). With all the secondary vacancies opening up...I don't think I'll have a problem pushing my Airbus training date back to the end of 05...

Assuming someone will be willing to swap...

Fly Safe!
FastCargo

Do I take this to mean that there is bypass pay? If you don't bid for something, and someone below you gets the bid, surely you don't get bumped up to their pay?? ( and stop calling me shirley) In other words, the payscales are just that....what year you're in and where you're sitting in ?? airplane, that's what you're getting paid, period?

 

[TonyC]

I have a question. Why would you want a progression as vast as S/O to F/O to F/O to F/O to F/O then to CPT to CPT to CPT.

I know it gets more senior people in the bigger planes but that is a lot of training and a lot of moneyspent training. I know they are making money hand over fist but that is a lot to spend.

Just wondering

First, it's not MY desire, it's the desire of the SCP, and apparently some higher than him. Second, you answered your own question - - it gets more senior people in the bigger planes.

A quick look at the accident history of this company reveals that we've lost more MD-11s than 727s. An easy finger to point is seniority. Frankly, I believe that some of our newhires are more adept at flying the MD-11 than the older guys, based on their experience with glass cockpits and FMS environments. It's certainly easier to train a young guy that's excited about his fortune in life and has some background in glass, than it is to train some grumpy old guy that finally decided to switch to the MD-11 because his favorite pairing changed from a DC-10 to an MD-11 - - now spoonfeed me, will ya?

The one thing that newhires lack, in many cases, is the 121 experience or the FedEx corporate indoctrination. For that, I believe a few months on a panel is a great experience for a guy. After that, pick a seat and go for it. Sitting in the right seat of the Boeing does very little, in my opinion, to mature a pilot in our system. It'll AGE him, to be sure, but maturing is another concept entirely.

You've also pointed out the irony in what "they" want. They want us to progress in steps, but they don't want to have to pay for training. Can we just agree to not waste our time discussing how stupid that is?

 

[TonyC]

Do I take this to mean that there is bypass pay? If you don't bid for something, and someone below you gets the bid, surely you don't get bumped up to their pay?? ( and stop calling me shirley) In other words, the payscales are just that....what year you're in and where you're sitting in ?? airplane, that's what you're getting paid, period?

Roger, Roger.

We call it Passover Pay, and there are a limited number of circumstances where it is paid. As long as pilot has listed a particular seat position on his Standing Bid preferences, if a pilot junior to him also bids that seat, is awarded that seat, is trained in that seat, and is activated in that seat, THEN the more senior pilot would receive Passover Pay. There is a limited number of circumstances where the Company may see that as advantageous.

For example, the senior pilot is currently in the 727 FO seat where the company is short. The junior pilot is currently in the DC-10 SO seat where the company is fat. They both bid and are awarded MD-11 FO. The company decides it is better to keep the 727 FO flying in that seat while they train the DC-10 SO. To compensate for the training out of seniority order, they would pay the 727 FO the MD-11 FO rate as soon as the DC-10 SO checked out as an MD-11 FO. According to the latest message from the SCP, they have paid Passover Pay as long as 18 months.