AWA/USAir Merger Questions

[Crzipilot]

Arguement doesn't matter, and well by the notes we've gotten from the first few days of arbitration, it looks like the AAA side is doing fairly well. Either way, Polar/Atlas just had their seniority arbitration done, and it included furloughed guys, interestingly enough, I think the furloughed guys got quite a bit of credit, though haven't seen it. And the AAA atty. is one of the ones that worked on the Polar side.....

 

[eddie]

nevermind

 

[BeCareful!]

AAA management was instrumental in orchestrating this merger as well as the financing along with DP....so how is it that they were going to lose the company in two weeks? That's a bunch of crap.

Can't we all just get along.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Furloughees were just put above active pilots last month by the arbitrator in the Polar Atlas merged list. So I guess the answer is yes there is a precident set, and a very recent one at that.

Not that Polar Atlas is on the same scale as U/AWA but they are ALPA carriers.

 

[abefly]

I know nothing about the Polar/Atlas merger. Was either one of these airlines hiring 300 pilots a year while the other one was "supposedly" weeks away from liquidation? Not trying to stir the pot, just curious.

 

[Mercy98]

I had nearly 14 years of continuous employment at airways before they furloughed me once. I did nearly two years of time over at MidAtlantic before that was sold off, and I left before being furloughed from them. I'm still flying now and will be remiss if I didn't consider going back to airways in the New Year. They have already tried to recall me.

Shouldn't my time spent in my career there be worth something? Why would I be placed on the "list" junior to someone else who has continuous employment at AWA but very junior to me?

I'm not looking to jump over anyone in seniority. I think that some fencing in on both sides would help ease the transition to a unified list. The average age of an airways pilot is nearing 55. That in and of itself will produce a need for over 1500 pilots.

If (when) I go back in 2007, and am based "east" then I will naturally fall into my original seniority which will be on reserve in either phl or lga. There will be guys junior to me there, but not too many. Where should I fall if based "west"? In the same approximate position but with my longevity intact. I don't want to go west though. At least not yet.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

I know nothing about the Polar/Atlas merger. Was either one of these airlines hiring 300 pilots a year while the other one was "supposedly" weeks away from liquidation? Not trying to stir the pot, just curious.

Well from a purely industry point of view every airline out there has been "weeks away from liquidation" for five years now!!

Polar Atlas had many issues happening, transfer of flying from Polar to Atlas etc etc.

However Yes, at the time Atlas purchased Polar, Polar was in BK and "supposedly" weeks away from liquidation. Atlas is the buyer, but the list went in Polars favor. Atlas is ACMI, Polar is scheduled. Atlas has contracts and Polar has route authorities.

Now how this "precident" may or may not affect the USAir/AWA stuff I have no clue. I just answered the original question about if it had ever happened before.

 

[abefly]

I had nearly 14 years of continuous employment at airways before they furloughed me once. I did nearly two years of time over at MidAtlantic before that was sold off, and I left before being furloughed from them. I'm still flying now and will be remiss if I didn't consider going back to airways in the New Year. They have already tried to recall me.

Shouldn't my time spent in my career there be worth something? Why would I be placed on the "list" junior to someone else who has continuous employment at AWA but very junior to me?

I'm not looking to jump over anyone in seniority. I think that some fencing in on both sides would help ease the transition to a unified list. The average age of an airways pilot is nearing 55. That in and of itself will produce a need for over 1500 pilots.

If (when) I go back in 2007, and am based "east" then I will naturally fall into my original seniority which will be on reserve in either phl or lga. There will be guys junior to me there, but not too many. Where should I fall if based "west"? In the same approximate position but with my longevity intact. I don't want to go west though. At least not yet.

My opinion, take it as you will, is because of career expectations. The time to upgrade at AWA was 7 years. AWA was actively hiring pilots and growing while U was shrinking. What was your career expectation prior to the merger? Maybe getting recalled or the company liquidating?

 

[TWA Dude]

Shouldn't my time spent in my career there be worth something?

Of course it should.

a. Preserve jobs.
b. Avoid windfalls to either group at the expense of the other.
c. Maintain or improve pre-merger pay and standard of living.
d. Maintain or improve pre-merger pilot status.
e. Minimize detrimental changes to career expectations.

The problem is that points e) and b) could work against each other, ie, why should an AWA pilot suffer stagnation while recalled furloughees leapfrog ahead? I'm not going to make any arguments about seniority integration since it's so subjective, I only wish to point out that just because through no fault of your own the USAirways pilots have suffered doesn't mean that you can be made whole at the AWA pilots' expense.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

I think that the furloughees will be slotted in some fashion personally. The reason being is # 2 on TWA's list.

Given how senior USAir is and the massive amount of retirements coming up in the next 5 to 10 years (something like 65% or better of the total list including furloughees) Any staple of the furloughees guarantees that every Captain seat in the airline will be an AWA guy inside 10 years. I do not see how an arbitrator is going to ignore the fact that such an integration will result in a massive windfall for the AWA group.

Just the way I see it looking at the facts of the lists and merger policy.