Will of ALPA Pilots?

[Pinkslip]

My picture says it all.

 

[Fly4hire]

That is 30.4% of the membership! Hardly a majority! Oh its the majority of the minority......

Why even make the pretense then? When only 50% of the general public votes, we don't disregard the results if it doesn't suit our agenda.

Representational government is still supposed to vote the expressed will of their constituents. Were there more than 53% of 18275 pilots who called their Reps in favor of age 65? And I suppose all those back channel conversations over age 65 are more valid than the survey?

 

[Flopgut]

I am guessing home economics. They may not particpate in democracy but I bet they can bake a kick as$ bunt cake....





That is 30.4% of the membership! Hardly a majority! Oh its the majority of the minority.....

Why not argue that by choosing not to particapte that was a vote for the status quo!!

It took 15mins to "do" the survey. I bet most pilots can tell you about the 60m they spent watching American Idol or Desperate Housewives!

Demoracy requires responsibility.....

Were is the Will of ALPA pilots when it comes to voting for LEC reps? Attending meetings (5% attendance rate).

ALPA pilots like most Americans want one stop shopping with express lane check out.... when it comes to democracy. They really don't want to be bothered with trival things like managing ones own career.....until the storm is in thier zip code... then the aloof members suddenly are experts, demand unrealistic action and cry fubar when instant results do not appear...

I just find it hard to believe that an aloof membership understands the political landscape, ramifications and short/long term results of the dynamics of Age60 all interwoven on CapHill. Even I don't. That is why I sent reps to the Hill.

If this vote were to pass or fail a contract how would it go? Not like this! Not every single pilot gets a vote on one group's contract. That is the exact viewpoint you should take on this. Sure more pilots should have voted, but this is certainly a quorum. And even more certainly enough a quorum with a clearly sufficient mandate that has obviously been ignored. Don't overlook the realities: We know the issue and we know ALPA's history, the majority has been backstabbed.

 

[Huck]

The numbers are even more lop-sided for us to pull out of Iraq. When you elect people to represent you, you can't expect them to always do what "you" (or even the majority) think is the right thing. Welcome to representative democracy. Did you all sleep through high school civics classes or did you take home economics instead?

a. As to our education, I'd be more than willing to swap transcripts with you, if you're interested.

b. Representative democracy is not a license to be a dictator. The feedback loop has to be much shorter than what you're describing.

c. If 2006 didn't convince you, wait for 2008. Americans understand that indeed they CAN expect your representatives to do what they think is the right thing, or they get to U-Haul their asses home. Americans are going to vote for the candidate who will be most likely to clean up W's messes. They're even considering a Clinton again....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

If this vote were to pass or fail a contract how would it go? Not like this! Not every single pilot gets a vote on one group's contract. That is the exact viewpoint you should take on this. Sure more pilots should have voted, but this is certainly a quorum. And even more certainly enough a quorum with a clearly sufficient mandate that has obviously been ignored. Don't overlook the realities: We know the issue and we know ALPA's history, the majority has been backstabbed.

Or the elected reps of any democracy can state only a minority particapted therefore the will of the collective is unknown or they are apathetic or they trust my judgement.... Regardless the Rep has carte blanc.....

 

[MCDU]

Once USAIR drops ALPA, ALPA will slowly become the Union for the commuters. ALPA is not a Union, its an Association

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

b. Representative democracy is not a license to be a dictator. The feedback loop has to be much shorter than what you're describing.

Cute. I don't think there is any dictatorship going on here. They were elected and can be recalled.

Respresentative democracy is a responsbility. Vote those who have the power (memership or citizens to PARTICPATE!)

c. If 2006 didn't convince you, wait for 2008. Americans understand that indeed they CAN expect your representatives to do what they think is the right thing, or they get to U-Haul their asses home. Americans are going to vote for the candidate who will be most likely to clean up W's messes. They're even considering a Clinton again....

U-haul? like recall? Doesn't sound dictorial to me?

 

[tomgoodman]

We have met the enemy.....

One thing remains constant. The more things change, the more they remain the same. The younger pilots will continue to get (insert curse word here) over by the older more senior pilots!

And one other thing remains constant: those younger guys will some day be senior and in the majority, whereupon they will steamroller the new minority, younger, or nonvoting group. "I WAS ROBBED, AND I'M GOING TO GET IT BACK!" Unfortunately, we all tend to think this way. Management grins, since it allows them to "jack down the house, one corner at a time".

 

[Flopgut]

And one other thing remains constant: those younger guys will some day be senior and in the majority, whereupon they will steamroller the new minority, younger, or nonvoting group. "I WAS ROBBED, AND I'M GOING TO GET IT BACK!" Unfortunately, we all tend to think this way. Management grins, since it allows them to "jack down the house, one corner at a time".

Tom:

I like your posts and perspectives. I have to say though, there are some unions where this behavior is not the norm. I'm starting to think this is unique to ALPA.

When is one generation of pilots going to stand up for the whole group? I know Prater, I was excited he was going to run ALPA, what a sad joke he's turned out to be! I don't know how this group of senior pilots we have now could be so inept and self absorbed? Look at the things this profession has been through in recent years. I have no idea how this age change can be the overwhelming and urgent issue for these guys. Beef took on Oprah, the NRA vehemently defends the 2nd, What's ALPA do? Remortgages pay and career progression to benefit a very small group for a very short time! At the very least JP should have some other more organic effort that is primary to this lateral (or reverse) step. How do they not see any other opportunity?

I would have been more inclined to support this for our senior types and sought to break this chain of greed, but I've never got the sense that this is all they want. As lopsided as this deal is for a senior type you still don't hear/see anything circling the issue that suggests this would be adequate for these guys or that they may want to also highlight the needs of their coworkers. There is no other meaningful effort on the part of JP or ALPA but this.

 

[737 Pylt]

And one other thing remains constant: those younger guys will some day be senior and in the majority, whereupon they will steamroller the new minority, younger, or nonvoting group.

Tom:
With ALPA changing the "age 60 rule unilaterality," those so called "soon to be senior guys will have to wait another 5 years to be "senior."

"I WAS ROBBED, AND I'M GOING TO GET IT BACK!" Unfortunately, we all tend to think this way. Management grins, since it allows them to "jack down the house, one corner at a time".

I'm not picking on you, but is that how you saw it when you were an active DL pilot? I'm curious, because I wasn't seeing it that way at all.
I don't think the bottom 800 or so pilots will ever be able to screw as bad as they have been screwed.

• DL Express pay
• Greenslipping by guys while we had furloughees
• PRP's (greenslipping)

These are just a few......Again, the senior guys had a chance to REALLY screw the junior guy.
737