Why hire military over your competition?

[waveflyer]

Oh good lord. I am not saying that Cessna time is just as valuable as turbine time. But... It is valuable. And you are not automagically better bc you flew a turbine all your life.
I'm comparing what makes pilots competitive to a major airline.

 

[Ih8AFYesmen]

I think you have pretty well summed it up. However Wavy here says his training in a Cessna at 150 hours was so much better than mine in preparing him for professional flying career. This is all I was doing at 150 hours.

Memories of SNA (Student Naval Aviator) going to the boat. Went to the boat solo in August 1967 in the T-28C. I had 142.2 hours total time and 116.8 in the T-28. The carrier work up was about three weeks of doing daily FCLP's (Field Carrier Landing Practice) until we had 75 passes. Then you stood by in the ready room waiting for your launch. My flight waited three days for the call to go we did one FCLP on the second day of waiting to maintain currency. The T-28 could deck launch without the catapult so they were on a loose schedule around the jet CQ schedule. Then it was launch solo into four plane formation flight, went 60 miles south into the Gulf of Mexico until you picked up the ship's TACAN. Then you waited for your call to go into the break and then you just follow the instructions you were taught like fly 325' feet 82 Kts, put the tip of the star on the left wing down the center of the aircraft carrier deck, when the boat disappears, make 20 degree left bank until the boat is in front of you, should see the ball on the mirror, make ball call and start playing the meatball, line up, airspeed game. You just looked out the window, kept the meatball in the center with power, worked hard to stay on centerline and worked airspeed with nose attitude. You never looked at the ship or the landing area because it is moving away from you and creates an optical illusion. The visual Glideslope will vary with the speed of ship through the water to make 25KT across the deck. You did not flare, when the cut lights came on, you just cut the power and flew into the ship and caught a wire. Our approach speed was 82 Kts, so with 25 Kts of wind across the deck the closure rate was not all that fast. Two touch and goes followed by six arrested landing and deck launches on a WWII aircraft carrier named the Randolph.

On the take off we were pointed toward the starboard bow, and told when the end of the ship disappears in front of you pull the stick back as far as you can, it will fly, do not look at the airspeed indicator, it will not be reading anything. They were right I looked at it, it was below 50 ISA. We were briefed if you crossed the center line of the ship on take off it was an automatic down (failure), because of possible interference with the bolder pattern. So not wanting to get a down, I unlocked my shoulder harness and looked over my left shoulder to make sure I was still on the starboard side of the centerline. Then it was my turn to break and I forgot to reset my shoulder harness. So on my second trapped landing, my shoulder harness is not locked, bamm, right shoulder and my head slam into the glare shield, thank goodness for helmets. My hand goes full forward on the power, somewhat in a WTF mindset, I see the launch officer shaking his fist at me and pointing toward the starboard bow, and off I go again. I was one of the high points of my life; I knew that by completing this, I would now make it through training and become a Navy pilot. What a fantastic adventure.

Qualed again the TS-2A on the Lexington, but that wasn't as big a deal since I already had orders to a P-3 squadron. But it did come in handy later as ship's company I got to fly the C-1A off of the USS Enterprise, now that was a big boat compared to the ones we landed on in training, a taxi one grade was very easy to get.

Even then at VT-1, you knew why it was as named the "Teeny Weiny". At Saufley Field we were based with VT-5's T-28Cs, the carrier qualification birds. We flew the T-34 with no radio communication, but the T-28's they got to talk to the tower. When the T-28's were taxiing, all T-34's had to stop and let them pass. They ruled the field. A idling R-1820 sounds mean, powerful, and manly, they would rumble by you in your idling IO-435 that sounded like a kitten purring. You had to look up to these birds when they passed and you saw the older oil and grease stained flight suits on these T-28 student pilots.Then you looked at your fresh off the rank spotless flight suit and truly knew you were a rookie in this flying business. But 6 months later, you would be back to Saufley in your dirty flight suit taxiing those same VT-5 T-28's with the tail hooks and you knew what the T-34 pilots were thinking.

Pretty cool story. I always enjoy flying with old timer Navy carrier pilots. They have some neat "there I was" stories. I respect anyone who can live on a boat for 6+ months at a time. These kids in their Hornets have it easy now a days, with the HUD to guide them all the way to touch town.:laugh:

 

[waveflyer]

So Wave, what sport did you play? I played Big Ten basketball, got on ESPN a few times, but like you, rode the pine It was fun though.

Oh hey, I'm just seeing this.
I was a two sport guy, table tennis and cricket

In all seriousness - that's awesome^^^ I never did anything that big, but did enough to respect anyone who lived that life.

 

[waveflyer]

Yip, I like and respect that post as well. Most of my mentors were navy, so I love those stories too.

 

[pilotyip]

Yip,
If you did all that work and had a good college experience why do you not see how it's a value to the flying profession?

When we are talking about the college degree we are not talking about Yale, U of M, or MIT as the universal example of getting a college degree. We are also talking about a degree from Bumblebee State. The degree from Bumblebee State requires no time on campus, any classroom attendance, and only money. Yet the Bumblebee State will still check the box in the lower left corner, same as Yale.

Many agree the college degree has nothing to do with flying an airplane. But for an airline to not even take an application or interview a really good guy, great stick, with check airman experience at a 121 airline, and just a good guy to be around, but move the guy with a degree from Bumblebee State to the top of the pile, is just plain stupid.

Many college graduate tried getting into Navy Flight Training in the mid 60's to avoid being drafted into the Army, many did not make it because the intelligence levels required to have a high probability of successful program completion were in excess of those who attended college. There was a mini military pilot shortage and the Navy knew the college degree had nothing to do with flying an airplane

BTW I have never said not to get a degree, I have said it is not needed until the last step of a career in 121 flying. Do it on-line while building flight time and not rack up a $100K of dept to get a four year degree you are not going to use.

 

[livin'thesim]

If you graduated from Yale and are flying airplanes, then something went terribly wrong.

 

[pilotyip]

If you graduated from Yale and are flying airplanes, then something went terribly wrong.

I can think of a couple Yale drops out who went into flying, worked out OK for them. George Bush the first, became a Navy pilot, things worked out ok for that college drop out. The other was Robert Lovett who dropped out to become a Navy pilot also, things worked out pretty good for him also. First, Assistant Secretary of War for Air in WWII, Secretary of Defense under Truman, co-author of the Marshall Plan in 1947. Shows a college degree has nothing to do with flying an airplane.

 

[livin'thesim]

Dropouts, fine.

The college/pilot career connection is tenuous at best. And yes, I have a degree, with a mostly technical/scientific character.

I will say that some of the mathematics and physics were of some use when pondering a few principles of flight, but people don't crash airplanes because they don't understand physics, they crash airplanes because they are inattentive or, occasionally, poorly skilled.


I remember when the housing bubble was bursting, and people were many tens of thousands of dollars underwater, while I was renting for less than some were paying in property tax alone.

They still tried to tell me that a house was a great "investment", and it was a great investment **at any price**.

I said, um, nooo, it is a great investment at the **right** price.

So I waited a few years and bought at near the bottom of the market.


Some of those people are still slightly underwater, even though prices have recovered.

What was interesting was their stubborn insistence on rationalizing any reason whatsoever to prove to themselves and others that "housing is a great investment". Mostly, it was to continue to convince themselves.

Now, I feel BAD that many people got screwed over due to the housing bubble, but that is no reason to take to rationalizations and outright lies because one cannot face the truth that they overpaid for an asset.

I recently read an article about a girl who has 100K+ in college debt for a "degree" in photography. And now, she works for basically minimum wage.

Sure, the baby boomers have all the empty platitudes about how college "enriches" your mind, etc., but it's mostly a load of stupid, because college has morphed into something very different. Instead of institutes of higher learning, college campuses are money-machines for the educational elite.

"Big Education" is as corrupt as "Big Pharma" or "Big Oil".

They are in business to serve themselves, at the expense of the little guy.

 

[waveflyer]

Yeah- well baby boomers got a much different deal on education than did the next generations they supported.

Leeches.

Greatest generation set them up with some of the best and cheapest education anywhere then they proceeded to pull up the ladder