Where is the bottom ??

[spitfire1940]

I'm just a dumb survey pilot, but it seems to me that until there is some kind of national representation of all pilots--like one, national union dedicated to the ENTIRE PROFESSION and not beholden to any particular pilot group--things will just get worse.

Otherwise, the whip-sawing will just continue and management will continue to have its way with pilots. Why should they pay more if there thousands of 20-year-olds who will fly jets for less than a bus driver's salary?

 

[capt. megadeth]

"But then, you'll see those same people eating a $8 happy meals and talking on the cell phone in the terminal."

You forgot...drinking their $4 Starbucks

Vabb,
You are 100% right on the mark brotha!

 

[Publishers]

It is likely that the high side and the low side will finally come closer together.

By the way, there are just as many high time airline types walking into the office as 20 somethings, many who say they will pay for training even though we were not asking them to.

The fact is that the process has slowed and slowed considerably and the fact that one spends more time on the bottom than before leads to dissatisfaction. Plus the golden objective is now turning green.

Ultimately, the bar is set by other factors.

 

[dtfl]

If it is really like this at your regional I am truly sorry. Not all are like this especially mine. We are not in consessionary negotiations. I just don't follow how you think we're dragging the industy down. We've been cheap since our inception, have been and are trying to raise the bar. True, it is not like this at all regionals but not ours and certainly not all others. Most of our pilots regard this job as a profession and are not willing to fly just to get paid. Last year I made close to six figures flying the line at my regional job and I am not very senior. I, like many others at regionals am seeking better employment, yet at the same time, aware of the fact that this may be our career and acting accordingly with contract negotiations. Some of you fellows are lumping a large group of pilots and problems into all regionals and I hope this is not a wide spead inaccurate perception.

Good to hear. Honestly. Good to hear.

 

[rwelch]

Where is the bottom?

How about a nationwide strike on Monday of next week?
That will get everyone's attention. The public, the government, and the airlines.
Can't do it without us.
We put a ton of time and effort into our career. Why not get what we deserve.

 

[smellthejeta]

And don't drag the rest of the industry down with you. It has already happened and the "race to the bottom" will only continue. Why would anyone possibly want to get into this line of business anymore? I am leaving the profession in the near future and when I tell this to some of the "youngsters" at my regional airline, they stare at me in amazement and say "but you are getting paid to fly an airlplane." To many of these "kids" they don't mind making $250 a week because they claim that the fact they are flying is all that matters. This type of attitude is exactly why this industry is going down the toilet and it is why I am no longer a part of it.

Last pay check, I netted (took home) $1400 for 113 hours on the clock (I have the paystub to prove it). I get two days off per week, two weeks of vacation time and a week of personal (not sick) time every year. My company will also bankroll my masters degree if I want it. 401K match is 100% for the first 4%. I am a LINE GUY.

Then, I listen to all the pilots who live life on a beeper and make peanuts. I ask them why I should sink $20k into the rest of my ratings for a job that pays a lot less than what I make now. Hell, it would take me YEARS at a regional or corporate job to make up for the lost income I would have made if I would have stayed a line guy. They tell me, "BUT YOU GET TO FLY A PLANE!" They tell me I don't understand. I ask them how they like 0200 call outs. They tell me I don't understand. What I understand is that I couldn't afford to pay rent, student loans, and car payments on the peanuts I'd make for the first few years as a pilot. I understand that I actually get vacation time at my current job, afford to buy a plane ticket to get there, and stay at a decent hotel when I'm there. What they don't understand is that the good jobs are gone and aren't coming back. I understand that I'll make $100,000 by my 30th birthday -- once I finish air traffic control school. Count me in as one of those who won't sell himself (and his brethern) out just to get some stick time. The fact that it would take me five years as a pilot to make what I make now as a line guy, even longer to make up for the lost revenue for the years I could have been a line guy, and even longer to recoup the $30k it would take to get all of my ratings disgusts me.

 

[pilotyip]

Food for thought

Suppose you are 100% successful with a nation wide walk out, the gov't, all of the airlines give in to all demands. Min starting pay 50K per year, 2nd year F/O 100K, top Capt 350K. But you forgot about the public, when the airline ticket prices double and triple, most will drive a car, or take a bus. We will be back to 1977, just before de-reg, with only about 25% of the flying jobs out there today. Most of the "new hire" jobs would go to the military pilots just like they did back in 1977. So for 75% of the brotherhood it woud be a bad move, for 25% it would be the pot at the end of the rainbow.

 

[Boeingman]

Suppose you are 100% successful with a nation wide walk out, the gov't, all of the airlines give in to all demands. Min starting pay 50K per year, 2nd year F/O 100K, top Capt 350K. But you forgot about the public, when the airline ticket prices double and triple, most will drive a car, or take a bus. We will be back to 1977, just before de-reg, with only about 25% of the flying jobs out there today. Most of the "new hire" jobs would go to the military pilots just like they did back in 1977. So for 75% of the brotherhood it woud be a bad move, for 25% it would be the pot at the end of the rainbow.

How about an SOS to stop the rape of our pensions? The use (again) of the bankruptcy courts to abbrogate our contracts? Security issues? The continued talk about cabatoge? The list is starting to add up.

 

[captain caveman]

Bringing wages and benefits up to a respectable level for pilots would amount from a few cents to a few of dollars per round trip per passenger. If ALL the airlines were forced to do it they could just add a little pilot surcharge to each fare and be covered. If it was like that for every labor group it wouldn't work, but how long does it take to train a pretty 20 year old F/A with a high school education and a good attitude?

 

[jetblue320]

Bringing wages and benefits up to a respectable level for pilots would amount from a few cents to a few of dollars per round trip per passenger. If ALL the airlines were forced to do it they could just add a little pilot surcharge to each fare and be covered. If it was like that for every labor group it wouldn't work, but how long does it take to train a pretty 20 year old F/A with a high school education and a good attitude?

A "pilot surcharge"? Yeah, that would go over real well with the consumers!!