Where is the bottom ??

[P3-Adub]

How low will pilot salaries go? Serious question really. With escalating costs and the strong pull for major/legacy carriers to remodel towards LCCs, what is the bottom line ? If carrier X pays only 120K a year for a captain on a ________, slim bennies, and a new business model, then the only way to compete is with similar cost structures. Best geuss is around 150K a year for an airline captain flying you name it. At least for the next 10 years.

 

[UPSer]

For the passenger carriers you may be right. For the two big cargo carriers, they can expect substantial raises in pay, work rules and retirement benefits. Both are hiring, get your resumes in!

 

[VABB]

How low will pilot salaries go? Serious question really. With escalating costs and the strong pull for major/legacy carriers to remodel towards LCCs, what is the bottom line ? If carrier X pays only 120K a year for a captain on a ________, slim bennies, and a new business model, then the only way to compete is with similar cost structures. Best geuss is around 150K a year for an airline captain flying you name it. At least for the next 10 years.

Where should I start:

As long as there are people out there willing to do this job for any wage, things are not going to get better anytime soon. There are a lot of variables here:

First, let's start with all of the PFT'ers from the mid-90's. I think that was the beginning of the end. Not only willing to work for peanuts, but willing to pay any dollar amount just to be an "airline pilot" and be able to show off their "Delta" uniform on their way to the airport to fly their Brasilia.

If that's not enough, it got even worse with the RJ. One would think that the wage should have gone up. Nope, a lot of dorks out there were so giddy about flying a jet and wearing a uniform, life was perfect and they didn't mind flying those planes at minimum wage. Besides, life was going to get better soon, because how could United not come calling.

Little did they know, that they were slowly draining the life out of the legacy carriers by stealing more of these routes. Why should United and Delta fly these routes at higher labor costs when these little wh*res will do it for nothing. Again, how could United not come calling.

Before you know it, the legacy carriers are cutting back, the commuters, oh, I'm sorry, REGIONALS are flying these routes more economically, and these same giddy pilots were stupid enough to sign a 40-year contract to fly at low wages. Oops, looks like United may not come calling afterall, and guys are stuck at these places with no way out. Yep, they built the trap and fell into it.

Now, throw in big airplane syndrome. "You know, we'd like to order something like a 737, but it's just too much to operate". Ah, but wait. Knowing their stuck, our giddy heroes will gladly fly these big airplanes at or below cost because suddenly the regional jet is now a puddle jumper and it is hurting their image. "I'll fly the 737 at any wage, because I know it's my only chance to do it." Thence, the cycle begins again.

You would think people would start making other career plans. Nope. Schools are pumping out pilots like their is no tomorrow. And a lot of them are willing to follow in the footsteps of others before them. "Oh cool, a jet!! $16K/yr?? O.K., sign me up!!!"

I see it getting worse, not better.

 

[UPSer]

Where should I start:

As long as there are people out there willing to do this job for any wage, things are not going to get better anytime soon. There are a lot of variables here:

First, let's start with all of the PFT'ers from the mid-90's. I think that was the beginning of the end. Not only willing to work for peanuts, but willing to pay any dollar amount just to be an "airline pilot" and be able to show off their "Delta" uniform on their way to the airport to fly their Brasilia.

If that's not enough, it got even worse with the RJ. One would think that the wage should have gone up. Nope, a lot of dorks out there were so giddy about flying a jet and wearing a uniform, life was perfect and they didn't mind flying those planes at minimum wage. Besides, life was going to get better soon, because how could United not come calling.

Little did they know, that they were slowly draining the life out of the legacy carriers by stealing more of these routes. Why should United and Delta fly these routes at higher labor costs when these little wh*res will do it for nothing. Again, how could United not come calling.

Before you know it, the legacy carriers are cutting back, the commuters, oh, I'm sorry, REGIONALS are flying these routes more economically, and these same giddy pilots were stupid enough to sign a 40-year contract to fly at low wages. Oops, looks like United may not come calling afterall, and guys are stuck at these places with no way out. Yep, they built the trap and fell into it.

Now, throw in big airplane syndrome. "You know, we'd like to order something like a 737, but it's just too much to operate". Ah, but wait. Knowing their stuck, our giddy heroes will gladly fly these big airplanes at or below cost because suddenly the regional jet is now a puddle jumper and it is hurting their image. "I'll fly the 737 at any wage, because I know it's my only chance to do it." Thence, the cycle begins again.

You would think people would start making other career plans. Nope. Schools are pumping out pilots like their is no tomorrow. And a lot of them are willing to follow in the footsteps of others before them. "Oh cool, a jet!! $16K/yr?? O.K., sign me up!!!"

I see it getting worse, not better.

Sad, but true.

 

[VABB]

These young "happy to be here at any wage" pilots are going to grow into "old and I hate this place" pilots. Yep, it's already starting to show. You know why many of these commuter pilots hope Delta fails? Because they are jealous. They know that they are stuck, and if they can't make the big bucks they don't want anyone else to either.

A few years ago, these dorks would be the first to tell you how they can't wait to get to Delta. Now, all they can tell you is that Delta pilots are overpaid. So, if ASA or Comair offered their pilots $300/hr would they turn it down because they don't want to be greedy?

 

[Sticky]

P3-Adub

Well..of course nobody knows. However, if you were to ask me, you'll be LUCKY to see $150,000 anytime in the next 20 years. You've seen this subject dragged through the brush over and over again in this forum. Click on any topic, and it should spin into an airline pilot pay debate.



The two largest fallacies in the aviation industry are "bad economy" and "pilot surplus".



It is complete misconception to believe that passengers can't afford to pay for a ticket. They'll spend 30 minutes on the internet shaving down fares to the lowest dollar. But then, you'll see those same people eating a $8 happy meals and talking on the cell phone in the terminal. It truly is up to the employees of the airlines to demand more from their customers.



The hard part is stopping follow pilots in another airlines working for peanuts. Pilots must enforce a reasonable pay scale that allows all pilots, junior and senior, to live a healthy happy life. When another pilot is willing to do your job for less at a different company, start black listing, black balling, posting flyers, do whatever it takes to embarrasses them. You're not doing this to hurt them, you're actually helping them.



Pilot surplus is a hoax too. That is NOT the reason for low pay. The most simple and bottom line reason for the low pay is young low-time pilots with no family, spouse, kids etc. They're in the early-mid 20s, and are fine with sleeping on an air mattress and eating Ramon. Also, $19,000 a year to fly a jet seems like a dream come true if you're a CFI making $10,000 a year and living in moms basement. The thought of retirement, land owner ship, investment, and healthcare hasn't hit home yet. From a airline standpoint, and 1000 hour kid is just as safe, knowledgeable, and trainable as the pilot at 40 years old with 10,000 hours and a family. Guess who will/can work for less?



I'm not an airline pilot, but rather in the survey business. Even though I only have 1500 hours, it would take me 8+ years at a regional to make what I make right now. Also, the company has been around for over 40 years. If you ask me, screw the regionals. Go find something better.

 

[On Your Six]

Richard Branson will set the low bar at Virgin America in a few months. He will use USAirways' new pay rates as a base and then reduce from there to fly Airbus A320s around the US. Pretty soon driving a school bus will look more appealing in terms of salary, benefits and RESPECT...

At least the pilots can look forward to working with hot stews - you won't find any of the old bag Delta or USAirways senior-mama stews working for zippy Virgin America.....

 

[pilotyip]

Cause of lower pay

LLC's and consumers are driving the lower pay. The Internet shopping available to the airline ticket purchaser drives to sell the lowest fare. Companies who pay their Capt.’s $120K per year can make money those who pay more cannot make money. You have to ask yourself if they cut my salary to $120K per year, where can I go and make more. Not many answers. I would much rather have the $120K, than $35K driving a bread truck on a route. You can live a nice life a $120K per year, I have never seen that much and am very happy with my life. Own an airplane, 5 cars, and a house in country. Saved for retirement, what else is there?

 

[Clyde]

LLC's and consumers are driving the lower pay. The internet shopping availalble to the airline ticket purchaser drives to sell the lowest fare.
Companies who pay thier Capt's $120K per year can make money those who pay more cannot make money. You have to ask yourself if they cut my salary to $120K per year, where can I go and make more? Not many answers. I would much rather have the $120K, than $35K driving a bread truck on a route.

And I would rather be driving a bread truck on a route than flying car parts in the middle of the night living on the pager. At least the truck driver has a schedule.

 

[Rhoid]

And I would rather be driving a bread truck on a route than flying car parts in the middle of the night living on the pager. At least the truck driver has a schedule.

You should know!