SWAPA Info packet FEDEXed to all AirTran Pilots

[madjack]

GB,

I was referring to today $$ and bidding power but I agree, over time...the demographics will result in another GAIN for the AAI pilots as a result of this acquisition...I ask again do the SWA pilots get to share in the spoils of this acquisition or do they all go to AAI pilots?

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

Plus, growth at a bigger company requires more airplanes to see the same relative gains in seniority. Growth from this acquisition is not guaranteed. I don't see it happening at all. GK is so caught up in his 15% ROIC before growth that I don't believe that we see any growth until he leaves or that metric is dispelled.

Bing Bing
We have a winner. The whole industry is in a no growth mode based on costs and yields.

 

[Lear70]

Lear, Let's agree to stay on topic,

I *WAS* on topic. I was answering a question YOU asked, where you listed a scenario where AAI CA's would end up senior to people hired before them at Southwest. I was responding that just because a fence gets put up that keeps CA's in their seats doesn't mean they automatically end up senior to your F/O's.

the AAI pilots will receive IMMEDIATE gains as per the SWA CBA. In your DOH/Fence scenario I on the other hand gain nothing...in fact I must wait until the fence protections go away to achieve the benefits of seniority my longevity allows???? I gain nothing while the AAI pilots gain a great deal... the AAI pilots, in good faith, should want share the gains and risk of this aquisition...

The questions you're asking are things our MC has asked us not to discuss (getting in to what we're willing to give or not). SOME of your gains (any immediate monetary gains) will have to be negotiated with Southwest. Other gains will be worked out between our two negotiating committees. Sorry I can't be more specific on here, but as I said, I do think that you should get SOMETHING out of the deal.

I have never advocated a staple and you and I both agree that the we have no idea what Mr Kelly or a panel of arbitrators will do...

There's probably a lot we would agree on, as would many of our pilots. We have a lot of reasonable people over here, I'm sure it'll all work out.

 

[Ty Webb]

Madjack,

I think you make a valid point; the SWA pilots will need to see some tangible benefits in order to earn their "yes" vote.

Also, a creative solution will need to be found to address the retirement issue, so that former AAI pilots don't become disproportionate or "clump" in parts of the list.

Hopefully, creative solutions will be found.

 

[Lear70]

Lear,

The "roll the dice, takes ur chances" comment is construed as "give us what we want or an arbitrator will take it...more subtle but still just as much a threat as the nuclear option...I think the arbitrators will ask the same questions I am asking...

I'm not saying they won't, and it's not a threat, I'm sorry you took it that way. If we go to arbitration, WE roll the dice, too.

Don't for a second think that we're not aware that if it went completely relative (unlikely) that you guys wouldn't scream bloody murder for GK pulling the plug and, if he didn't, start looking at the USAPA playbook (your update from Aaron made it perfectly clear that you would).

We don't want to be in that situation, and it would hurt us a lot more than it would hurt you while we were waiting in limbo for years for all the legal wrangling (we'd be the ones losing $40-50k a year while everyone had injunctions from doing ANYTHING until the legal battles were heard). So don't think it's a threat towards you, it's a mutually-bad road for arbitration - way too much inherent risk on BOTH sides.

 

[Lear70]

Bing Bing
We have a winner. The whole industry is in a no growth mode based on costs and yields.

So you trust your CEO or you don't. Which is it?

If he says on one hand that he will protect your pilots from suffering a loss as a result of this acquisition AND he ALSO says that Southwest will be entering a growth mode from this acquisition, how can you believe him on one count and disbelieve him on another?

Not understanding the double-talk coming from some of you about your CEO...

 

[shootr]

Lear,

Gary's definition of growth and a pilot's definition of growth are possibly not the same.

shootr

 

[madjack]

Lear said: Pushing your CEO to lose hundreds of millions of dollars pulling the "nuclear option" ripcord if it totally screws the majority of your pilots for years to come is one thing (and he very well might). Asking him to do the same thing for something that's close to what the negotiators were pushing for might be something else altogether.

I was referring to this comment, you and I are not discussing nuclear options...but you cannot expect that the gains from this acquisition should all go to AAI...what I have heard from your side is in the "nothing less then DOH with fences" all the way to "relative seniority"...In that range of SLI I gain nothing?? I may lose as many SWA pilots and some AAI pilots have mentioned because of the demographics of the AAI group...again why would I agree to gain NOTHING while the AAI pilots achieve immediate and long term GAINS??

 

[madjack]

Lear Said: If he says on one hand that he will protect your pilots from suffering a loss as a result of this acquisition AND he ALSO says that Southwest will be entering a growth mode from this acquisition, how can you believe him on one count and disbelieve him on another?

Mr Kelly may be a shrewd airline CEO but last I checked even he cannot predict the future...AAI pilots must SHARE with the SWA pilots the RISK that SWA may NOT grow due to the economy. Also we must negotiate what we have now and it must be fair and equitable...even to the big, mean, greedy, cocky (and a slew of other insulting descriptors I have read on this forum) SWA pilots. ALL THE GAINS CANNOT GO TO AAI!!

 

[Lear70]

Both good points, MadJack. I don't have an answer for all of it, as I don't know all the moving pieces. That's why we both have Merger/Negotiating committees. I only know what they've released and what's been publicly stated by GK, MV, BJ, and others.

(and not all of you are mean, greed, or cocky, and I have no clue how "big" you guys are, or if we should start a contest). (disclaimer: most of your pilots are great people in person, although I've met some not-so-friendly ones since this started. Fear makes otherwise decent people do ugly things, fact of life on BOTH sides of the table).

Shootr, that's a good point, but then, to play Devil's advocate, might GK's view of "not harming Southwest pilots" also be different in his eyes versus yours? (I don't mean that aggressively or meanly, I'm just playing devil's advocate with the whole "trusting GK implicitly" thing that seems to come out every so often).