Song Sung Dead?

[General Lee]

Another thing the LCCs don't have is the requirement to pay retirees their pensions. I just read that Delta still pays out about $350 million a year to our retired pilots, managment, flight attendats, etc.... Jetblue doesn't have to pay a dime, yet. But, as the years go by, they will start to have to pay for more and more---I just hope we all are still around then......

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[banger]

Originally posted by General Lee
Another thing the LCCs don't have is the requirement to pay retirees their pensions. I just read that Delta still pays out about $350 million a year to our retired pilots, managment, flight attendats, etc.... Jetblue doesn't have to pay a dime, yet. But, as the years go by, they will start to have to pay for more and more---I just hope we all are still around then......

Actually General, They won't (refering to pension payouts). jetBlue's retirements are all matching 401K's that belong to the retirees'. JetBlue matches 3% and you need to stay a certain amount of time to get vested, but once you are vested the total is yours to do with as you like.

 

[General Lee]

banger,

Is that a "Cash balance" type program? I think most of our non-union people were just switched to that---which still gives you a percentage or a matching but when you retire you take it with you and that is it---no monthly check from Delta. That is the new scheme for companies these days---although I think I read something about IBM not being allowed to do that for some reason...?? But, we do have s huge payout every year to retirees--including now Leo Mullin---who was here only 5 years or so, and was GIVEN credit for 30 years----and he also got $16 million as a goodbye present. (In his contract----they can try to break our contract--but they can't try that with Leo's....?????)

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[rudderdog]

Originally posted by General Lee
Another thing the LCCs don't have is the requirement to pay retirees their pensions. I just read that Delta still pays out about $350 million a year to our retired pilots, managment, flight attendats, etc.... Jetblue doesn't have to pay a dime, yet. But, as the years go by, they will start to have to pay for more and more---I just hope we all are still around then......

Actually General, They won't (refering to pension payouts). jetBlue's retirements are all matching 401K's that belong to the retirees'. JetBlue matches 3% and you need to stay a certain amount of time to get vested, but once you are vested the total is yours to do with as you like.

ATA is the same....We have a matching 401k as well as a "money purchase plan" which is basically the company putting between 4.5% and 12% of our gross pay into a retirement plan of our choice. The money is there and it's ours. TWA had the same kind of deal when their A-plan went south. Great protection for the employees and the employer won't face a $4 billion underfunded pension in 20 years!

 

[duckman]

Still nothing like a fully vested A and B plan you would find in the legacy carriers IF it stays solvent...correct?
Something that rarely had to be worried about 20 yrs ago. Now it's the standard vice the exception.

 

[OPIE01]

A monthly retirement paycheck?

With an Company Pension what happens if you die at at age 60.5 years old. Does your spouse still continue to recieve the montly check.

I'm retired military and my spouse get's nothing if I die unless I had paid into the monthly SBP plan which cost's 6% of my monthly retirement check.

And if I did pay into SBP, she would only get 55% of my retirement check. Is the Delta plan simular?

 

[Falconjet]

Survivor Benefits

Opie it depends on the plan. FedEx's A fund has an option to take a reduced amount so that a surviving spouse can continue to receive a monthly check (less than the full amount). It is very similar to the SBP from the military. B funds typically just pay out a lump sum upon retirement, but again depends on the company and their plan. I don't think our B plan has any survivor plan because its just a lump sum payout. I would imagine that Delta's A plan allows for a survivor plan, but am just guessing.

FJ

 

[Publishers]

costs

Just the whole thing in everyt aspect costs more. You have more senior people wondering around who have had COI and performance raises over a long time, less entry level pay andmore high end, sick days and other stuff.

In one company I was with, our policy was that the non union people would do as well or better on the benefits package than the union negotiated. Consequently, if the union negotiated 6 sick days, everyone else might have recieved 7 or more.

All of this adds up over time and becomes a major part of you Cost of operation. This same factor is why majors do not want to integrate their regionals.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

I'm not employed by DAL but here's my theory.
Lots of DAL pilots are retiring due to concerns about possible bankruptcy and some due to age 60. I heard that something like 300 pilots are calling it quits in March. If Song were to continue expanding they might have to call back some of the furloughs. Naturally management doesn't want to call back furloughs when they are playing hardball with pay negotiations. It's a matter of brinkmanship. If staving off bankruptcy was really a driving concern then management would be willing to consider short term pay cuts. They have stated they will only consider a long term cut which we all know probably isn't necessary. When the economy rebounds yields will go back up to some extent and if DAL were to concentrate more on Asia they will be in good shape to profit from that expanding international market.

Just my .02.

 

[MedFlyer]

I'm not employed by DAL but here's my theory.
Lots of DAL pilots are retiring due to concerns about possible bankruptcy and some due to age 60. I heard that something like 300 pilots are calling it quits in March. If Song were to continue expanding they might have to call back some of the furloughs. Naturally management doesn't want to call back furloughs when they are playing hardball with pay negotiations. It's a matter of brinkmanship. If staving off bankruptcy was really a driving concern then management would be willing to consider short term pay cuts. They have stated they will only consider a long term cut which we all know probably isn't necessary. When the economy rebounds yields will go back up to some extent and if DAL were to concentrate more on Asia they will be in good shape to profit from that expanding international market.

Just my .02.

Sorry to kill your conspiracy theory, but I don't think Song's halt has anything to do with pilots. You'll notice that while Song isn't expanding out of JFK, regular mainline DL is expanding (new flights to SJU,SDQ,SAN,DEN,etc) instead. Song's intended growth has just been "given" to regular mainline, but its growth for DL pilots either way.

The reason Song is being slowed is performance. Song's loads and revenues have been sub-par and while Song's costs are lower than DL mainline, they still aren't even close to being competitive with JBLU. Until the existing Song routes prove that they can make money or at least breakeven, there's no point in spending another dime on lime-green paint.

Further down the road if Song proves worthwhile, maybe it will be expanded. Or maybe DL management will realize you can't be everything to everyone and just focus on making all of Delta a great product, not just 36 planes.