Song Sung Dead?

[Dizel8]

Or Ted and Independence can just slog it out for air supremacy, much like DAL and AAI is doing it in the ATL-LAX market.

It is starting to look more and more like Song is not the money maker it was touted by Mr. Selvaggio, me thinks it may even be losing money, rumour has it 55 mil so far, not including the original startup cost of 60.

As far as DAL mainline getting IFE, that will happen after you give them 30 percent of you pay, heck they may even throw in the hat with the plume of feathers and the five stripes for the 777 guys.

Take care

 

[FDJ2]

General, I think you're right about the "dilution" factor. I wouldn't be surprised to see Delta start installing the Song IFE in mainline 757s and continue to expand the JFK operation with mainline vs. Song. I think the emphasis will be to compete more aggressively with the Delta Brand vs. creating a new brand. We may see some other changes in RJ utilization and DCI as well. The next shareholder meeting will be interesting.

 

[General Lee]

FDJ2,

I agree, and I guess the shareholder's meeting is April 23rd (?) in ATL now.


Dizel8,

Ted and Independance will slug it out at IAD, and AA--DL--Jetblue will slug it out at JFK. But, we still have other hubs that will hopefully bring in some much needed revenue this Spring and Summer. Also, I have flown a few Song flights lately and they have been pretty close to being full. I think the passengers like it and they even like the lime green colors.....But, I don't know really what Grinstein will do---but it sounds like he might have a plan.....And, I think there will be pay cuts, but I doubt all the way up to 30%----maybe 20% with some other benies....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[~~~^~~~]

Song Sung Ted

Instead of Song Sung Dead, this should be Song Sung Ted.

United to launch low-cost airline atDulles


By Tom Ramstack
THE WASHINGTON TIMES



United Airlines announced yesterday that it would operate a low-cost subsidiary out of Washington Dulles International Airport beginning April 7, while Delta Air Lines said it would stop Dulles flights by its low-cost subsidiary on April 30.
United already operates a hub at Dulles with 73 daily flights. The new Ted subsidiary will add another 15 daily flights, many of them for leisure passengers traveling to vacation sites in Florida or Las Vegas.
United officials said they can operate more efficiently with their subsidiary, Ted, than Delta could with its subsidiary, Song.
"It was an easy and natural choice," Pete McDonald, United Airlines' executive vice president for operations, said about the choice of Dulles for the Ted flights.
Ted is cutting expenses by sharing maintenance and gate facilities with the United hub, although it will be managed as a separate airline, said Sean Donohue, Ted vice president.
Song operates three round-trip flights daily out of Dulles.
After April 30, the Boeing 757 used for Song's Dulles flights will be transferred to New York's John F. Kennedy International Airport for flights to Fort Myers, Fla.
Song uses a "point-to-point" routing system in which it has no hub. Instead, it flies between any airports where its management thinks it can land the most passengers.
The end of Song flights at Dulles is part of a companywide re-evaluation of the subsidiary's operations, Song officials said.
"We need to make the most of the assets we have," Song spokeswoman Stacy Geagan said. "The flight will be much more successful and have much more market in the New York area."
Low-fare airlines carried nearly a fourth of U.S. airline passengers last year, the U.S. Department of Transportation said.
Ted derives its name from the last three letters of the word United.
Whether a new marketing plan is enough to make Ted successful where Song has struggled depends on the management, said Leo Schefer, president of the Washington Airports Task Force, a nonprofit organization that promotes business with Washington-area airports.
"If they really look at it as though they've created a low-cost carrier instead of a low-cost division of an airline, then they'll be successful," Mr. Schefer said.
A common mistake of large airlines that start low-cost subsidiaries is that they maintain the same labor contracts and committee decision-making for the subsidiary, he said.
"That reduces your productivity," Mr. Schefer said.
A better option is to develop new labor contracts specifically for the low-cost carrier and a more flexible management structure that responds to needs of a smaller organization, he said.
Dulles' attractions for low-cost airlines include Northern Virginia suburbanites with annual income of about $75,000, which is a top customer base, Mr. Schefer said.
In addition, only about 30 percent of Washington-area residents were born in the region, meaning people from other regions often return home for visits, he said.
Ted "will add one more choice for the region's air traveler," said Mark Treadaway, air services vice president of the Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority, which manages Dulles and Ronald Reagan Washington National airports.
Ted will have no first-class seats. Instead, each Airbus A320 will have 90 economy seats and 66 "economy plus" seats.
Economy plus, which offers an extra 4 inches of legroom per seat, is reserved for regular customers who have amassed the most frequent-flier miles.

 

[G4G5]

It's all part of getting a new CEO. Grienstein is making his mark. From "Sexy" new uniforms, to pulling out of IAD, adding to JFK, demanding 30% for the pilots, to backing off on Song. For better or worse he is letting everyone know that he's in charge.

I for one like some his moves. IAD is going to be a long drawn out LCC cat fight. Within the next 6 months you will have JetBlue, TED and Independence Air all flying LCC flights out of IAD fighting for the same customer. You predict the winner? But it was not going to be Song. So, he choose to get out and move the assets to a fight he can win. Smart.

Backing off on Song makes sence too. IMHO it was a stupid idea in the first place. Mullen spent big bucks for the McKensie folks to come up with something, anything. This was not Delta's idea it was the consulting groupt that Mullin paid big bucks to. Arpey was just quoted that his plan is to try and offer one product at one level of service, like SWA. He also said the multiple types of aircraft cartering to different types of customers DOES NOT work. I believe that Grienstein is thinking along the same lines. If he sells just a few few first class tickets on an IAD-CAlf flight his dynamics change. He can't even offer a first class ticket on a Song flight but their is nothing stopping him from charging the same price as an LCC in the back if a Delta jet.

The additional flights at JFK tell me that they are concerned about JetBlue. Delta is just trying to protect its turf. They need the JFK feed for their high yeild intl traffic. They could afford to give away some seats if they have some connecting pax paying big bucks to Europe.

I think he's going to hit a wall if he thinks that he can muscle the pilots into giving back 30%. DAL is no where near the financial condition that AA was last April. He's caught between a rock and hard place.

 

[spanky2]

...and the final straw will be the Gerry paint job. That way Delta can have 4 different paint jobs on the ATL ramp...the "original" (and best IMO), the Ron Allen (no personality), the Leo Mullin (beach towel), and what ever Gerry pays a consultant to come up with. Gotta do something to force BK.

 

[Capn Butthead]

The new CEO at Delta is a moron. In my opinion ( not a smart man I am ) he is there for one reason. To get concessions. By the way, Hang in there guys....yall do not deserve to give 30 percent back to the comapany. You are in no way in the same situation as United or US air. I am 100 % behind DL alpa in fighting Mr Grienstien.

My only other question is how is he going to compete with jetblue and the low fares and trying to bring a profitt back to Delta. Jetblue already does these runs out of JFK and will provide a lot of competition for DL on these runs. It seems that fares will not be able to be raised on these routes unless Jetblue goes away.

Just my opinions....good luck and kick some butt

 

[General Lee]

Capn,

Well, we will need to give him some pay due to the fact that there is a large gap between us and the other guys, and in bad times that doesn't float. I don't think we will just GIVE him 30%---and he will have to work with us. He has a lot more flexibility with all of the other groups, and most of them are currently now paying higher medical premiums, and the stews did get a slight pay cut---but that is all I know about. So, there is some flexibility there. As far as fighting Jetblue on those routes, we will have to keep charging lower fares on those, but will raise fares on others---like INTL etc... Also, a big help for us will come when lower gas prices eventually come back. It will help us all---but really help the Majors who pay a lot more. Hopefully that will happen soon.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Publishers]

song

Song by any other name is Delta and the fact is what does Song do for Delta, very little.

Only if it was spun off later on would it be worth it and then you would have employees up in arms over going with Song rather than Delta.

New LCC's have a distinct advantage as they do not have all the baggage that the culture at Delta or United have going.

 

[duckman]

Baggage

Over time, and furloughs, and wage cuts, and changing of the whole industry...that "baggage" will go away. Painful in the interum though, and tough for the companies/employees during the change.