Pet peeves from the ATC folks

[Hold West]

Here are my gripes:

Center controllers who aren't listening on Uniform.

It's not that we're not listening, it's that UHF radios suck. Mine or yours, I don't know, but it's routine that I can talk to a tanker on Victor 5x5 and can't hear anything from the fighters on Uniform in exactly the same place. There's nothing more fun than trying to break up a formation and spread them out for arrival sequencing when you can only talk to one out of 5-7 planes. Then you get a little closer to the antenna, and I can hear every other word, that's a big help.

This has been a standard complaint since I started in 1984, and well before that. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

 

[Hold West]

What's the procedure for a Tower controller giving intermediate taxi questions (FBO) or taxi instructions on the roll out? I understand he/she is trying to keep traffic flowing BUT a flight crew might be a little too busy to answer questions while rolling thru 100 knts w/ a strong gusty crosswind, slippery runway, etc. Some days it might be no big deal but other times we actually are working. This has happened a couple of times to me recently.

A snippet of my handbook:

3-10-9. RUNWAY EXITING​

a. Instruct aircraft where to turn-off the runway after landing, when appropriate, and advise the aircraft to hold short of a runway or taxiway if required for traffic.​

PHRASEOLOGY-
TURN LEFT/RIGHT (taxiway/runway),

or

IF ABLE, TURN LEFT/RIGHT (taxiway/runway)

and if required

HOLD SHORT OF (runway).​

NOTE-
Runway exiting or taxi instructions should not normally be issued to an aircraft prior to, or immediately after, touchdown.
​

More follows that segment, the emphasis is of course mine.
​

It's a judgement call, and like all judgement calls, is prone to occasional misjudgement, or a controller that doesn't understand the problem. If there's time, a non-confrontational mention that you thought the timing was inappropriate might help.
​

 

[81Horse]

... Well, "when it helps" is more of a consideration to you guys. Much like "ready in sequence" ...

Useless, excess verbiage, both phrases.

As to "with/have the numbers," this was a courtesy back in the day -- before ATIS. Now it serves no useful purpose, assuming the airport is ATIS-equipped; saying it does not relieve the controller of verifying that you actually have all the current ATIS info. The AIM says this:

[4-1-13]h. While it is a good operating practice for pilots to make use of the ATIS broadcast where it is available, some pilots use the phrase "have numbers" in communications with the control tower. Use of this phrase means that the pilot has received wind, runway, and altimeter information ONLY and the tower does not have to repeat this information. It does not indicate receipt of the ATIS broadcast and should never be used for this purpose.

 

[Brett Hull]

Here's one for the Tower guys. Aren't you guys supposed to assume jets are ready upon reaching the departure runway? Here in BHM it's a tossup. Some controllers seem like they want the call, and others have an "I know" tone when answering after I call ready after sitting at the hold line for a minute with no traffic in sight.

 

[A Squared]

A Squared,

Your probably right, but im in denial. A guy can dream, cant he?

I feel your pain. Flying the dc-6, pretty much everyone climbs faster than us, so from ATC's perspective it's worlds easier to depart a 737 then let the 6 go. I know that, but it's still irritating to arrive at the runway and be told we're #2 behind an Alaska 737, which we can see is just starting pushback. Ok that's a slight exaggeration. Anyway, I understand why they're doing it and just shrug, but there's one guy at my company who gets enraged and argues with the controllers, even refused to give way once. Doesn't help our company image with ATC much.

 

[81Horse]

From the AIM:

4-3-14. Communications ...
a. Pilots of departing aircraft should ... change to local control frequency when ready to request takeoff clearance.
NOTE-
Pilots are encouraged to monitor the local tower frequency as soon as practical consistent with other ATC requirements.
[SIZE=-2]REFERENCE-[/SIZE][SIZE=-2]
AIM, Automatic Terminal Information Service (ATIS), Paragraph 4-1-13.[/SIZE]
b. The tower controller will consider that pilots of turbine-powered aircraft are ready for takeoff when they reach the runway or warm-up block unless advised otherwise.

So, jets and turboprops.

 

[Hold West]

TRACON controllers who can't read my aircraft type. "/P" means "I don't have a VOR, dude"...don't get pissed when I'm "unable" your STAR/SID.

This may be a gap in my education, but /P means you do have a TACAN though, and just about all the SID/STAR procedures (obviously excepting RNAV procedures) I can think of use colocated VOR/TACAN installations, VORTACS, for navigational guidance. There's probably a procedure or two out there predicated on a VOR/DME, but the vast majority use VORTACS. What part of them can you not navigate?

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

Pilots:
The term "with you"
Citaion 1952B with you at FL 350.

Well no $hit!

..and quit making up terminology!!!! You're not cool OR FUNNY!!

ATC:
I also wish ATC would realise that the old dog of an F27 I'm flyin' doesn't
climb OR decend fast. Minimal power setting limits, no spoilers, no speed
breaks, no gear, 'till 170IAS no flaps until 144IAS. Wanting 200KTS until
short final?! Anything over 180kts at glideslope intercept means a possible
go-around.

"you have a B747 heavy trailing 3 miles"

Sounds like you have a problem.

I don't mind using the term "unable" but we come in the same airport, the
same time EVERY DAY. If I couldn't decend at 2500fpm on visual the last 2000 times,
I probably can't to it tonight.

Oh, and that Level 5 TS ahead of me? I'm not flying into it, no matter
how many times you ask. And stating "needing 20 deg. left for weather"
is NOT a request!! It means I'm turning in about 20 seconds so make a hole.


Don't get me wrong, ATC usually is VERY helpful and I'll usually bend over
backwards to assist. The pet peeves just set me off.

CE

 

[moonlight]

Here's one for the Tower guys. Aren't you guys supposed to assume jets are ready upon reaching the departure runway? Here in BHM it's a tossup. Some controllers seem like they want the call, and others have an "I know" tone when answering after I call ready after sitting at the hold line for a minute with no traffic in sight.

Yeah, I used to LOVE listening to pilots unfamiliar w/ ops at LAS call up the tower w/ a "Ready for takeoff or Ready in Sequence". As they would make this mistake over on the 19's, you could practically feel the rage of the controller boiling over. We would literally cringe and duck, as if the Great Hand of the Almighty was going to reach right through the radio and strangle someone. On a good day, the reply was simply, "Roger". On a bad day, anything from, "I know" to "Don't call us, we'll call you!"

 

[Fury220]

This may be a gap in my education, but /P means you do have a TACAN though, and just about all the SID/STAR procedures (obviously excepting RNAV procedures) I can think of use colocated VOR/TACAN installations, VORTACS, for navigational guidance. There's probably a procedure or two out there predicated on a VOR/DME, but the vast majority use VORTACS. What part of them can you not navigate?

True... /P means "TACAN only," and we use VORTACs all the time...no issue there. However, there are MANY STARs and SIDs that are VOR/DME only. The DFW terminal area and just about anywhere east of the Mississippi (it seems) is thick with VORs.

If I get cleared the JOE POOL 1 departure just one more time out of KNFW, I'm going to eject, walk to the dude at the scope, and strangle him. They deal with mil jets all the friggin time down there and still get pissed when we declare "unable." It's not a huge hassle for me, as I'm used to it. Throw a German/Italian student in there (who's trying to learn IFR nav when his English is passable at best), and it can really throw the dude a curve ball he's not ready for.