New Rest Rules and Commuting.....

[JoeMerchant]

So, should a pilot be able to commute on a redeye from the west coast to begin a 12 hour day on the east coast? Is that safe?

Is this about true safety...or is it about selective safety when it suits us?

I personally don't think commuting should be included, however based on what some are asking, that is a logical conclusion to this....These "new rules" could be even worse than what we have now....Something to think about...

Does everyone realize that the proposed CDO/nap/high speed rules would be even worse than what we have now? Does everyone realize that these rules will probably result in MORE days at work and fewer days at home? All this while you will still be tired if you have a 430 duty in with a 10 hour overnight.

 

[Jim]

It's also how you commute. When I commute LAS-HNL in our A330s, I have a bunk in the crew rest module to sleep. Nothing fatiguing about that.

 

[Freebrd]

result in MORE days at work and fewer days at home? .

haha pbs already doing that for us :nuts:

 

[pilotyip]

So, should a pilot be able to commute on a redeye from the west coast to begin a 12 hour day on the east coast? Is that safe?

Is this about true safety...or is it about selective safety when it suits us?

I personally don't think commuting should be included, however based on what some are asking, that is a logical conclusion to this....These "new rules" could be even worse than what we have now....Something to think about...

Does everyone realize that the proposed CDO/nap/high speed rules would be even worse than what we have now? Does everyone realize that these rules will probably result in MORE days at work and fewer days at home? All this while you will still be tired if you have a 430 duty in with a 10 hour overnight.

Nice touch of reality, rest is an individual responsibility, that pilots most handle with no problems. There are no rules will always provide a pilot who wide awake. fully alert, and ready to handle a 12 hour duty day starting at 0400.

 

[tomgoodman]

There are no rules will always provide a pilot who wide awake. fully alert, and ready to handle a 12 hour duty day starting at 0400.

True. The only fair solution is to give each pilot an "alertness quiz" at sign-in.
Now what are some good questions for the test? They should be easy enough for even a new-hire or a geezer to answer if they are wide awake, but tough enough to screen out exhausted zombies. For example:

Crew Scheduling calls you with a "good deal". Should you...
a) Snap it up
b) Begin talking in French
c) Laugh hysterically
d) Kick yourself for answering the phone

Other suggestions for the quiz?

 

[johnpeace]

Nice touch of reality, rest is an individual responsibility, that pilots most handle with no problems. There are no rules will always provide a pilot who wide awake. fully alert, and ready to handle a 12 hour duty day starting at 0400.

Well, no...but there can be substantial changes to the rules to prevent our companies from standing in the way of exercising that individual responsibility.

9 hrs between airport van rides just isn't enough time to rest following and preceding a 12-14 hr duty day.

 

[agrrlpilot]

Hah! It's called home-basing. At the Colgan hearings, the investigators asked enough questions to make it plain that the Colgan people knew their pilots couldn't afford to be based in 4 or 5 of the most expensive cities in the US and actually expected their pilots to commute to work. Not that they made any provisions, except for the wink and nod that crew lounges were not to be used for sleep/rest purposes.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Well, no...but there can be substantial changes to the rules to prevent our companies from standing in the way of exercising that individual responsibility.

9 hrs between airport van rides just isn't enough time to rest following and preceding a 12-14 hr duty day.

Are you willing to give that up for 2-3 more nights away from home? That's the result of making every overnight longer with the short legs we do....Personally, I'd rather suck it up and enjoy more time at home.

It's not dangerous...It's simply not ideal...There is a difference.

 

[ualdriver]

Are you willing to give that up for 2-3 more nights away from home? That's the result of making every overnight longer with the short legs we do....Personally, I'd rather suck it up and enjoy more time at home.

It's not dangerous...It's simply not ideal...There is a difference.

Hmmmm.....methinks the senior RJ captain is more concerned about his personal schedule......

 

[JoeMerchant]

Hmmmm.....methinks the senior RJ captain is more concerned about his personal schedule......

Hmmm....methinks at least 75% of pilots if given the choice, would rather have more time at home than longer overnights...The 25% that would rather get more sleep can bid the 4 day trips with 12 hour overnights.

I bid the tough 3 day trips....They are hard, but they aren't dangerous.

Fatigue has many components. One is how much time away from home. Another is what time do you duty in....If I have four 4day trips with duty-ins at 430AM, I'm going to be tired every single morning...No getting around it. Should we ban early duty ins too? How about redeyes? How about night freight....If you want a 9-5 M-F job, pick something else...