More Eagle Furloughs

eagleatr

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2001
Posts
77
Total Time
5000
Just read on the AE ALPA site that the company has sent out more furlough letters. Don't know how many, but apparently the effective date is March 17. Look out now.....
 

FOAgain

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 18, 2002
Posts
70
Total Time
13000
Man, that is really quick. I thought we were OK until June!!! Liars.
 

Av8trxx

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 10, 2001
Posts
225
Total Time
5,000+
I think the rats abandoning ship are swimming past me now... :eek:
 

FLYnMONKEYS

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 1, 2002
Posts
115
Total Time
6000+
Just Remember that mgmt is doing this not AA pilots. PEople are getting furloughed left and right. Eveybody is just trying to protect their own.
 

MartinFierro

Flyin' Gaucho
Joined
Jan 7, 2002
Posts
89
Total Time
is now
This company sucks. I can't believe I ever actually wanted to work there. With how inept management is at thinking "long-term", I'm surprised that they're still in business. Sorry more of you will be joining my sorry ass on the street. Hey, when things are going bad, why is it that the management types aren't canned?????:eek: Being as how they're supposedly in charge, they should take some of the heat for this mess also. It's not as if they're irreplaceable or even wanted!
 

FOAgain

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 18, 2002
Posts
70
Total Time
13000
I would like to second FLYnMONKEYS remarks. This is NOT APA's fault. There is a reason they wanted this in their contract. They were smart enought to see the writing on the wall. Only thing that p!sses me off is the fact that AMR honors their contract, while violating ours at will. WTF???:mad:

If AMR would take their big, fat egotistical heads out of their arses and take a seat at the table, we could work this out. They would rather park every Eagle aircraft, furlough every Eagle employee and lose the subsequent millions in revenues, than deal with the APA. They're afraid they might have to give them something. It's much easier for them to sit back, watch the demise of Eagle as we know it, and blame it all on the APA. Morons:rolleyes:
 

FLYnMONKEYS

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 1, 2002
Posts
115
Total Time
6000+
"I would like to second FLYnMONKEYS remarks. This is NOT APA's fault."

Well thank you. For those of you who don't get it here it goes. I'm furloughed, out on the street, no money, no travel bennies, and no free hotel pens! The thought of Eagle expanding while I'm out on the street makes me want to puke. The scope is in place to protect jobs at AA. Plain and simple. It's not about Eagle guys. APA is in the drivers seat on this issue as it's their negotiated right. If mgmt didn't want these problems they shouldn't have approved this in the scope language of the CBA. I'm looking forward to flying an RJ over at Eagle in the near future.
 

~~~^~~~

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2001
Posts
6,137
Total Time
7,500+
I'm furloughed, out on the street, no money, no travel bennies, and no free hotel pens! The thought of Eagle expanding while I'm out on the street makes me want to puke. The scope is in place to protect jobs at AA.
And you think it is working to protect your job? Cutting Eagle only cuts your feed and exacerbates the problems of restoring mainline operations.

Delta is using RJ's to preserve feed, market presence and route structure. Delta's cuts have been less severe than United's, American's, Northwest, or US Air. When the passengers return, Delta will be able to restore mainline operations faster because the infastructure is already in place and operational.

It amazes me that furloughed mainline pilots think that scope based on revenue seat miles, or block hours, works at all... The fact is that pilots at the least scope constrained airlines are doing the best right now.

None of the regional pilots are happy that mainline is furloughing. We would rather you be hiring additional pilots. Your nausea sounds as though it is induced by jealousy - however, you should realize that harming Eagle also harms you. You guys are in the same boat, riding the same tides.
 
Last edited:

corky

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 29, 2001
Posts
151
Total Time
4000
FLYnMONKEYS,

I respect APA's concern and contract clause preventing Eagle from growing while AA has pilots on furlough but to hear you gloat about "looking forward to flying an RJ over at Eagle" at the expense of another Eagle pilot's job makes me want to puke.
Pi$$ on you guys.
This is not us against you. AMR should be parking the new aircraft in the desert just like everyone else is.
 

EagleRJ

Are we there yet?
Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Posts
1,490
Total Time
5800
Eagleatr, the ALPA site makes no mention of additional layoffs. No mention of it on the company site either. What is your source for this? The last official news was that layoffs/recalls would be on hold pending resolution of the ASM cap issue.
 

FLYnMONKEYS

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 1, 2002
Posts
115
Total Time
6000+
"It amazes me that furloughed mainline pilots think that scope based on revenue seat miles, or block hours, works at all... "


Right now it is working at AA. That 70 seat RJ is very close to the size of a B717. So AA gets rid of the 717 and gets rid of the pilots who fly it. Why? Because Eagle pilots can give them a plane with 30% less seat at 1/3 the labor costs.

It makes me mad but it makes sense. If they can get someone to do it cheaper then it's a good move for the shareholders. But wait, what's this? Ah yes, the scope clause. It stops AMR from outsourcing AA flights while AA's pilots are on the bench. Is it fair? Works for me, and I'm sure the junior man still working thinks so. If this scope wasn't in place AMR would outsource all of the small market flying to Eagle and even more AA pilots would be on the street.

It sucks that anyone has to take this on the chin. I already have. But it is my belief that if Eagle wants to add to the Cap they need to do it with furloughed AA/TWA pilots flying the jets.
 

eagleatr

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2001
Posts
77
Total Time
5000
There was a post by an EMJ ORD CA stating that two FO's that he new had received "the letter." I've gone back to find it and that post is now gone.


On another fun note, there was also a link to a newspaper article stating that Executive is for sale, and the Caribbean Star is the front runner.

Can life at Eagle get any better?


Oh yeah, Am. Connection just started new service to OWB, so I guess it can.
 

FOAgain

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 18, 2002
Posts
70
Total Time
13000
I wish you Delta Connection folks would stop comparing our situation to your's. It's different. YOU DON'T WORK FOR AMR, THEREFORE YOU DON"T KNOW!!! I'm so sick of this RJ defense bullsh!t! Put your apps out!! Aim higher than a regional. You're trying to bring down wages for the ENTIRE INDUSTRY.

The issue is outsourcing. Not just at AA, but Eagle as well. What the he!! is wrong with protecting your company's jobs? APA doesn't want to see their flying go to Eagle, we don't want to see ours go to Connection. Simple. Why doesn't everyone get this?!?!?

Solution? Drop the Connection. We grow, don't cap out, more money goes to AA, more pax, slowly AA and Eagle furloughs come back. This would also eliminate the need for the sale of Executive.

I agree with corky. Our new jets should be going to the desert. They just make to d@mn much money with them.
 

MartinFierro

Flyin' Gaucho
Joined
Jan 7, 2002
Posts
89
Total Time
is now
FLYnMONKEYS:

You think that we at Eagle don't have outsourcing problems? You think that Eagle expantion is overwhelmingly into former AA routes? I don't know the statistics on that one, but I'd be interested in the facts. I believe your union has the actual facts on that one, care posting it to support your opinion?

That 70 seat RJ is very close to the size of a B717. So AA gets rid of the 717 and gets rid of the pilots who fly it. Why? Because Eagle pilots can give them a plane with 30% less seat at 1/3 the labor costs.
The only reason AA has 717s is because it acquired them from TWA. There was never any place for them in the AA scheme of things, nor was there ever intended to be. They were dropped because they didn't fit into existing plans at AA, not necessarily in favor of RJs. Although true, RJs are much cheaper to operate because we get paid so little.

It sucks that anyone has to take this on the chin. I already have. But it is my belief that if Eagle wants to add to the Cap they need to do it with furloughed AA/TWA pilots flying the jets.
You think that Eagle pilots haven't "taken it on the chin"???? Probably more so than you guys at mainline.

And I'm sick of mainline pilots thinking that it's their right to displace regional pilots at WO from their jobs. I know we have a flow back clause in our contract. That's fine. But to think that regionals should be a safety net for mainline pilots is obnoxious. As a new hire at a major that's one of the things you risk and give up: the seniority and security you had accrued at a regional.

That said, I think it's better and more constructive to direct anger toward AMR than to either AA/Eagle group. If AMR would treat its employees with respect and honor contracts, then that would be a huge step in the right direction.
 

ScRaMJeT

Old Timer
Joined
Nov 28, 2001
Posts
88
Total Time
5000
This is what amazes me!!!

The one aspect of all of this that amazes me, is AA keeps the TWA pilots but yet they furlough their own pilots. Some of these people didn’t even meet the minimums to interview at American but yet they have jobs, riding the coat tails of TWA into AA. Guys who met the minimums, interviewed and got hired by AA & Eagle are now furloughed, and facing the possibility of being ejected from commercial aviation. Some of these eagle guys were shipped all around the country by management and what do they get for their sacrifice, a furlough letter.

I understand that a lot of those senior TWA captains have been around since aviations beginning, for them I would have made an exception, but no favors for new captains. To all new Captains, Captains in their thirties and all FO’s I would have said hey your company is gone. We can’t put our guys on the street. You can interview with AA or Eagle, whichever one you meet the minimums for, but we can’t sacrifice our pilots for you. We’ll give you an equal opportunity to compete for a job. I wish you the best!

Thats what I say...but I’m just a pawn in the game of life.
 

~~~^~~~

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2001
Posts
6,137
Total Time
7,500+
Some of these people didn’t even meet the minimums to interview at American but yet they have jobs, riding the coat tails of TWA into AA.
What could those mins be? I gave a 727 SO a ride home who had 700 TT.
 

ifly4food

ifly4food.com
Joined
Nov 28, 2001
Posts
956
Total Time
To Muc
Re: This is what amazes me!!!

ScRaMJeT said:
The one aspect of all of this that amazes me, is AA keeps the TWA pilots but yet they furlough their own pilots. Some of these people didn’t even meet the minimums to interview at American but yet they have jobs, riding the coat tails of TWA into AA. Guys who met the minimums, interviewed and got hired by AA & Eagle are now furloughed, and facing the possibility of being ejected from commercial aviation. Some of these eagle guys were shipped all around the country by management and what do they get for their sacrifice, a furlough letter.
Ummm, according to ALPA, there is a much higher percentage of TWA pilots furloughed than AA pilots. Better check your facts.
www.alpa.org
According to the TWA MEC, American Airlines announced the furlough of an additional 61 TWA pilots. The total number of TWA pilots on furlough or with furlough notices now stands at 290, or 13.2 percent of the total number of TWA pilots. In contrast, 595 (4.9 percent) of American's pilots are on furlough. “This announcement stands in
stark contrast to American Airlines CEO Don Carty’s promise to ALPA President Duane Woerth and members of the U. S. Congress that furloughs between the two carriers would not occur disproportionately,” said TWA MEC Vice
Chairman John Heffley. Once the National Mediation Board makes a single carrier determination, “American
management has promised its employees that it will ‘reshuffle’ the furloughs, recalling American pilots to TWA pilot positions, and furloughing additional TWA pilots,” he said.
 

DIAMONDDD

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2001
Posts
463
Total Time
some
I think what Scramjet is saying is that Eagle and APA pilots are "in the AMR family" and the TWA guys are not. As far as not meeting the mins for interviewing, I can only speak for my class at TWA. We didn't have one guy that didn't meet Americans mins. I know that we (TWA) have hired some low time folks in the past with quality LOR's but which of the majors have not? I know that SWA (and I think AMR) requires a certain amount of PIC Turbine (as defined by FAR Part 1) But everyone in my class met these mins.
BTW, I am furloughed, too.
 
Last edited:

ScRaMJeT

Old Timer
Joined
Nov 28, 2001
Posts
88
Total Time
5000
You must look at AMR and Eagle as one!

In response to ifly4food's quote:

"The total number of TWA pilots on furlough or with furlough notices now stands at 290, or 13.2 percent of the total number of TWA pilots. In contrast, 595 (4.9 percent) of American's pilots are on furlough."

You must remember ifly4food that they are not including eagle pilots in these numbers. You should know better then that ifly4food :eek: . I went to that site but I couldn't find furlough numbers for eagle anywhere. (A more specific link would be appreciated.) In writing my statement I was lumping eagle and AA mainline into one group. If you look at them as one group then there hasn't been disproportionate furloughs between the two carriers. It may even be the other way around, but without hard numbers I would be speculating.

Another by product of this mess, is that it is pitting AA mainline pilots against there brethren.

Either way it goes I still believe if a TWA pilot was below 40 years old, he should have to re-interview, with no gurantees.

And DIAMONDDD you say that everyone in your class met Americans mins but in your next breath you say "I think AMR requires a certain amount of PIC turbine". How would you know if everyone in your class met Americans mins, if you don't even know them now. American requires 500 pic turbine, among other things. And you must also remember that if a pilot did get hired with 700 hrs tt(I hope not light singles) do you think that they would tell everyone in their class. They would probably say I have 4000 total with 2000 in corporate jets, just to make them feel like part of the gang. " I flew a gulfstream up and down the west coast for a few years, ohh yeaahhhhh. ';)'

Take care young fellows and stay outta my planes wake.
 

DIAMONDDD

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2001
Posts
463
Total Time
some
The reason I know that everyone in my class met the mins was that everyone in my class was a Turbine Captain for their respective regional airline. Each had a few years as a captain under their belt. Two were RJ Capts and still two others were Check Airmen. I know being a Check Airman doesn't automatically mean at least X amount of hours as a PIC but even at SWA's 1000 hr min PIC, usually a Check Airman has that covered. I had 4800 hrs and two jet type ratings. I had 1500 hrs of Jet PIC. That doesn't mean that I am an old salty dog but it DOES mean I no longer had to look to see what the mins were whenever I was applying (Except for the SWA 737 type thing that used to be there) Trust me, everyone in my class met the mins.

By the way I personally Don't feel that everyone under the age of 40 at TWA should have to interview with no guarantees. I am sure that most eagle guys DO and I am sure as heck sure most TWA guys do NOT.
DD
 
Last edited:
Top