Instrument Approach Question

[mocaman]

Hello, I have a question regarding the VOR approach into La Porte IN. (PPO) the notes in the plan view indicate that NOPT is allowed between radials 095 and 238. They show a holding pattern in lieu of a PT. Say you are holding on the 090 radial...and you are then cleared for the approach. Do you have to get established in the published holding pattern or can you go ahead and just do a PT? Thanks for all responses!

 

[TonyC]

Hello, I have a question regarding the VOR approach into La Porte IN. (PPO) the notes in the plan view indicate that NOPT is allowed between radials 095 and 238. They show a holding pattern in lieu of a PT. Say you are holding on the 090 radial...and you are then cleared for the approach. Do you have to get established in the published holding pattern or can you go ahead and just do a PT? Thanks for all responses!

I assume you're talking about This Approach Procedure. If you arrive at the KNOX VOR (OXI) from roughly the south (095 radial to 238 radial) you will fly over the VOR and proceed via the 346 degree radial to the Final Approach Fix and so on. Otherwise, you will use the published holding pattern to more closely align your airplane with the 346 degree approach course.

The latter method would include the holding pattern you described on the 090 degree radial. Since you would be arriving at the KNOX VOR outside the 095 clockwise to 238 radial, you would be required to fly the published holding pattern before proceeding along the 346 degree radial to the FAF.


OK - - that hyperlink from a "quick-view" approach plate on FLTPLAN.COM doesn't seem to work. Try this instead: VOR or GPS-A La Porte Muni (PPO)

 

[sqwkvfr]

Just the PT, unless otherwise instructed.

I disagree with ya here, Tony...I don't think you have to make a lap, do you?

 

[TonyC]

Just the PT, unless otherwise instructed.

I disagree with ya here, Tony...I don't think you have to make a lap, do you?

That's what I thought until I looked at the plate and reread the scenario. First, there is no procedure turn depicted - - only a holding pattern, and the No Pt routing in the note. You're either going to cross the VOR and head for the FAF, or you're going to cross the VOR and enter a holding pattern.

The holding pattern in the hypothetical scenario is outside of the defined cone for NO Pt, therefore I believe the published holding pattern is required to align with the Final approach course.

 

[sqwkvfr]

That's what I thought until I looked at the plate and reread the scenario. First, there is no procedure turn depicted - - only a holding pattern, and the No Pt routing in the note. You're either going to cross the VOR and head for the FAF, or you're going to cross the VOR and enter a holding pattern.

The holding pattern in the hypothetical scenario is outside of the defined cone for NO Pt, therefore I believe the published holding pattern is required to align with the Final approach course.

Right, but you just do a parallel entry for said holding pattern and fly the inbound course after turning inbound, right?...you wouldn't actually fly the holding pattern....no?

 

[TonyC]

Right, but you just do a parallel entry for said holding pattern and fly the inbound course after turning inbound, right?

right...

...you wouldn't actually fly the holding pattern....no?

Parallel entry, outbound a sufficient distance so that you can turn left to either proceed direct to the VOR or intercept the 346 degree course inbound, with an inbound leg length of no more than 1 minute constitutes one turn in holding.

I wouldn't fly ANOTHER turn in holding.

 

[sqwkvfr]

Parallel entry, outbound a sufficient distance so that you can turn left to either proceed direct to the VOR or intercept the 346 degree course inbound, with an inbound leg length of no more than 1 minute constitutes one turn in holding.

Just in time....my instrument oral is very near. Thanks!

 

[ipilot]

As far as i know. If ur withing 30 deg of the inbound course going direct to the station and ur cleared for the approach you don't have to do the hold. Otherwise you'll have to enter the hold and once ur established on the inbound course for the approach you can do the approach.
I hope this helps....

 

[philo beddoe]

Some clarification is needed here.

You absolutely must do the racetrack course reversal unless you arrive on an airway radial between 095 deg and 238 deg. The 095 and 238 will both be airways, and there may be additional airways between these two.

However, it is a mistaken assumption that ALL radial in that sector permit a straight-in. THey do not. Because of TERPS criteria the other radials require a course reversal.

Trust me on this one, I've researched it. While I agree that it is stupid that you can't use all of the radials in the sector, that's how it is. This may not be how it was intended when the concept of these sectors was first introduced, but that is how the feds are interpreting it now.

Besides, carefully observe the note:

"... OXI VOR/DME airway radials..."

 

[philo beddoe]

As far as i know. If ur withing 30 deg of the inbound course going direct to the station and ur cleared for the approach you don't have to do the hold. Otherwise you'll have to enter the hold and once ur established on the inbound course for the approach you can do the approach.
I hope this helps....

I'm not sure what you meant by this, since it is sort of vague, but if it means what I think it does, then no, you can't do that.

Unless you are being vectored or on a NoPT route, you MUST do the course reversal. The "30-degree" window is not supported anywhere in the regulations.