If you're voting YES...

[JustaNumber]

If you're voting YES, would you mind please explaining your rationale? Because I'm not seeing it. (This is directed at XJT guys, but also applies at several other regionals...)

Let's look at the facts. They are threatening to wind down the company if we vote no. But they are not guaranteeing, or even suggesting, that we will not be wound down if we vote yes. At least with all the other concessionary contracts at other loser regionals, some kind of carrot was dangled next to the stick.

Furthermore, if you think that a mere 2% cost savings, within only one department of the company, is going to make the difference between a company surviving and thriving, or wasting away to nothing, then you're not intelligent enough to be piloting an airliner. And if you believe that all the non-financial "power and control" issues will make or break the company, then you should relinquish your medical immediately for psychological impairment reasons.

"Being Comaired" is the phrase being thrown around the industry lately, but the Comair guys took all the concessions thrown at them, and it made not one bit of difference to their fate. The fate of entire airlines is not decided based on the outcome of union votes. Every airline's fate is already determined by upper management; you just get to play the scapegoat.

So why do you YES guys believe anything different?

 

[Freebrd]

With 117 coming in play best to vote NO, remain under our current contracts, rid ourselves of MEC Newie & buddies, hire real professional negotiators ( screw ALPA) and fight next year when hopefully they can't find anyone to fill the seats.

 

[WSurf]

If you're voting YES, would you mind please explaining your rationale? Because I'm not seeing it. (This is directed at XJT guys, but also applies at several other regionals...)

Let's look at the facts. They are threatening to wind down the company if we vote no. But they are not guaranteeing, or even suggesting, that we will not be wound down if we vote yes. At least with all the other concessionary contracts at other loser regionals, some kind of carrot was dangled next to the stick.

Furthermore, if you think that a mere 2% cost savings, within only one department of the company, is going to make the difference between a company surviving and thriving, or wasting away to nothing, then you're not intelligent enough to be piloting an airliner. And if you believe that all the non-financial "power and control" issues will make or break the company, then you should relinquish your medical immediately for psychological impairment reasons.

"Being Comaired" is the phrase being thrown around the industry lately, but the Comair guys took all the concessions thrown at them, and it made not one bit of difference to their fate. The fate of entire airlines is not decided based on the outcome of union votes. Every airline's fate is already determined by upper management; you just get to play the scapegoat.

So why do you YES guys believe anything different?

Basically put............. Better to die while standing then to die on your knees.

 

[slick1]

With 117 coming in play best to vote NO, remain under our current contracts, rid ourselves of MEC Newie & buddies, hire real professional negotiators ( screw ALPA) and fight next year when hopefully they can't find anyone to fill the seats.

^^^^^^ This. ^^^^

 

[Mickey Mouse]

Let the company worry about the fleet size. Let the pilots worry about flying professionally and retaining at least the current work rules and compensation. Don't get lured into the disinformation campaign; it's not real. What is real and current is your paycheck and QOL work rules. Are you gonna attend your children's events as planned if you are on reserve, or is it another heartbreaking phone call from daddy, saying "I can't make it, my days off were moved again"? Are you gonna tolerate the left over schedules from PBS that include 7 days of airport sits with 14 hour duty days worth 4 hours of pay? Will you be happy deadheading home on the last leg of a 4 or 6 day trip for no pay? It's coming off your guarantee too. Will you blame yourself for voting yes when you get violated for an altitude or course deviation while flying your 4th CDO in a row and you were too tired to notice it? We have been down this road before. We secured many of the current work rules and QOL protections in our last and current contract. Some of you guys are about to piss it all away, all because you got spooked. BOO!

 

[JustaNumber]

Crickets...

Come on YES voters, don't be bashful, you're anonymous here. What's your thinking?

 

[Freebrd]

We secured many of the current work rules and QOL protections in our last and current contract. Some of you guys are about to piss it all away, all because you got spooked. BOO!

THIS! All the improvements since ALPA first came on property, not just the recent contracts. And they want a 5 year deal? FUPM!

 

[IBNAV8R]

Can't answer. I've never voted yes to ANY TA - EVER. Nor have I ever abstained.

 

[shadowpuppet]

Having been long since out of the piloting side of the industry, you guys are faced with an interesting problem. You have to come to the realization that you are outdated on one side of your merger (XJT), and un-competitive on another side of it (ASA). This leaves you in a precarious position. It's not any pilot groups fault, but the world around you has changed. Gone are the days when the network carriers owned and then sold off their regionals when they were in financial trouble to raise capital to stay afloat. These sales came with hefty profit margins built into the contracts that went with the sale. Now the network carriers are atoning for their sins by using their wholly owned regional carriers to put the squeeze on the independent regional airlines to lower the cost structure to meet their requirements for the future. You see there is one thing the network carriers hate to do more than anything else, finance RJ's for their regional carriers. Sure they will use a few aircraft as leverage to get their wholly owned airlines to play ball, but by and large they are looking for somebody else to do the heavy lifting.

This is where companies like SkyWest and Republic come into the fray. Both have money, both have the ability to finance, and both have labor problems. Neither can guarantee anything to their pilots in the way of aircraft or jobs at a major, yet they are due the lions share of the "new" aircraft coming online to feed the network carrier's machine. All of the wholly owned airlines have contractual guarantees for far less aircraft than they have currently, yet the pilots of the independents still cry foul. It stands to reason that there is a much brighter future for the independent pilots as far as stability is concerned if they allow their respective airlines to swallow up all of the growth that the network carriers make available. Major network carriers hate to finance aircraft to be operated by someone who can back away from them at a moments notice (Mesa), yet the pilots at Republic and XJT (who can bring their own aircraft to the table) seem to want to fight this opportunity at every step. It stands to reason that half of the regional airline pilots will be moving on to network carriers in the next 5-8 years, but where are you going to be in the mean time?

 

[JustaNumber]

Having been long since out of the piloting side of the industry, you guys are faced with an interesting problem. You have to come to the realization that you are outdated on one side of your merger (XJT), and un-competitive on another side of it (ASA). This leaves you in a precarious position. It's not any pilot groups fault, but the world around you has changed. Gone are the days when the network carriers owned and then sold off their regionals when they were in financial trouble to raise capital to stay afloat. These sales came with hefty profit margins built into the contracts that went with the sale. Now the network carriers are atoning for their sins by using their wholly owned regional carriers to put the squeeze on the independent regional airlines to lower the cost structure to meet their requirements for the future. You see there is one thing the network carriers hate to do more than anything else, finance RJ's for their regional carriers. Sure they will use a few aircraft as leverage to get their wholly owned airlines to play ball, but by and large they are looking for somebody else to do the heavy lifting.

This is where companies like SkyWest and Republic come into the fray. Both have money, both have the ability to finance, and both have labor problems. Neither can guarantee anything to their pilots in the way of aircraft or jobs at a major, yet they are due the lions share of the "new" aircraft coming online to feed the network carrier's machine. All of the wholly owned airlines have contractual guarantees for far less aircraft than they have currently, yet the pilots of the independents still cry foul. It stands to reason that there is a much brighter future for the independent pilots as far as stability is concerned if they allow their respective airlines to swallow up all of the growth that the network carriers make available. Major network carriers hate to finance aircraft to be operated by someone who can back away from them at a moments notice (Mesa), yet the pilots at Republic and XJT (who can bring their own aircraft to the table) seem to want to fight this opportunity at every step. It stands to reason that half of the regional airline pilots will be moving on to network carriers in the next 5-8 years, but where are you going to be in the mean time?

So which is it, do the majors hate purchasing aircraft more than anything else, or do they want feeder pilots who "meet their future cost structure requirements" within a 2% margin?

You make it sound like it is one set of regional pilots here who get to decide the fate of the future of the industry.

Perhaps it is Delta's decision to make here. From their perspective, if they really hate spending billions of dollars purchasing RJs, are they going to walk away from someone else buying the RJs because the pilots cost 2% more than their "cost structure requirements"? Will they step over dollars to pick up dimes?

Right now, this offer is not meeting my family's future cost structure requirements.