If/When Spirit Strikes

[pilotyip]

Hi

I just want to make sure I can still post. I was recently warned about calling someone out as a strike breaker and picket line crosser. I also named this person. My bad.

what are you doing here? second MD-80 on the ramp, big things coming

 

[Mike man]

Srtikes are not one size fits all. I believe in Spirit's case it would be a mistake

I think it will be the mistake of the management to let it get that far...especially since the previous negotiating committee had all but one section ready for a TA, oddly enough it wasn't pay it was pref bidding.

 

[AirCobra]

AC, with that last post, I think it's pretty clear that you've lost this debate and are flailing wildly, hurling insults in a vain attempt to mask your failure. I see no point in continuing this exercise unless you decide to change your tone and actually start debating the issues.

PCL,
Here are United's IAM contracts. Your basic ramp lead with no additional skills and no overtime is making over $20.00 an hour. That means a 40 hour per week Ramp Lead makes at least $3200 a month. Their base pay alone puts them on par with a regional FO. Continental's $31 an hour with a 72 hour guarantee puts monthly pay at $2232. This is just for a ramp lead. Take a look at the contract for Technical Instructors, you know the guys that give those supposedly five minute classes Mike is talking about. Some are pulling in over $5,000 a month.

http://www.locallodge141.com/airlines/united airlines/ual.html

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

PCL,
Here are United's IAM contracts. Your basic ramp lead with no additional skills and no overtime is making over $20.00 an hour. That means a 40 hour per week Ramp Lead makes at least $3200 a month. Their base pay alone puts them on par with a regional FO. Continental's $31 an hour with a 72 hour guarantee puts monthly pay at $2232. This is just for a ramp lead. Take a look at the contract for Technical Instructors, you know the guys that give those supposedly five minute classes Mike is talking about. Some are pulling in over $5,000 a month.

http://www.locallodge141.com/airlines/united airlines/ual.html

Why do you think what is best for ARW is best for Spirit? Why does one size fit all?

And what is your radical change at ALPA idea?

 

[PCL_128]

PCL,
Here are United's IAM contracts. Your basic ramp lead with no additional skills and no overtime is making over $20.00 an hour. That means a 40 hour per week Ramp Lead makes at least $3200 a month. Their base pay alone puts them on par with a regional FO.

Your story is changing! (big surprise) We were comparing apples to apples, not apples to frisbees. It was a legacy to legacy comparison, or regional to regional comparison. How much is the regional ramper making compared to the regional FO? Most regionals are paying their rampers something in the $6/hr range, $10/hr if you're senior.

Continental's $31 an hour with a 72 hour guarantee puts monthly pay at $2232.

First of all, there are no 1st year pilots at any of the legacies right now. A junior FO at a legacy has at least 2-3 years longevity. Second, probationary pay isn't relevant anyway. We never bother to expend negotiating capital on first year pay.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

AC, respectfully, are you starting to realize why guys with your modus operandi are a hindrance to ALPA work? Guys who volunteer their time away from their families to get things done really don't have the tolerance or patience for your type.

Your methods are obstructionist. In a democratic environment, no one gets everything they want. But you can get something and something is better than nothing. ALPA for years has dealt with guys who refuse to self reflect and insist that ALPA is the problem. But they can't quantify those problems and if they do the problems and solutions are so unrealistic. Your performance on this thread is prime. ALPA volunteers can worry about the haters or just press on and try and get something accomplished. ALPA is damn if it does/doesn't with guys like you......

 

[Lear70]

You know, I was going to actually debate some more items, but after coming back today and reading that AirCobra thinks that ramp and CSR workers are "highly" skilled... I'm just done.

Good luck with your career. I will, again, state that if everyone else thinks you're way off base, that an examination of your stance is in order.

Fly safe

(unsubscribed from thread)

 

[hmmm]

Amazing to see you still at it R

 

[enigma]

I think it will be the mistake of the management to let it get that far...especially since the previous negotiating committee had all but one section ready for a TA, oddly enough it wasn't pay it was pref bidding.

That is correct. But let's be more specific.

The previous negotiating committee HAD TA's (signed by both parties) in all sections except pay, duration and scheduling. We had a handshake on PB with the VP Ops, but were never able to get it put down on paper. (the words they put on paper didn't match the verbal) Until Spirit was able to put the verbal agreement on paper, there was NOT going to be any PB agreement.

The verbal agreement was: ALPA got to choose the PB system provider, ALPA participated in - equally - pairing generation, ALPA PB committee members ran the line building process, Spirit would give ALPA pay loss credit for at least 8 days per month for PB committee FPL, and finally - the 4 day off guarantee must remain for pilots who choose that option. (this virtually guaranteed the same 6on/4off crap that we have now, but at least you would have your four days off. Bill R made that promise to every recurrent for almost a year and to every pilot who he had a chance to speak to regarding PB)

But remember, all of that took place before the economic crash leading in the fall of 2008. We are not in the same position as we were then, and that makes it far harder for our negotiators to achieve a deal on par with the one that never saw the light of day. If we had it to do over again, I suspect both nego comms and both MEC's would do things somewhat differently. The first would have made a deal when times were good and the second would have kept more of what was passed down to them instead of doing a dramatic withdrawal from signed sections.

 

[Mike man]

We had a handshake on PB with the VP Ops, but were never able to get it put down on paper. (the words they put on paper didn't match the verbal) Until Spirit was able to put the verbal agreement on paper, there was NOT going to be any PB agreement.

False. The only hold up was pref bidding, they even had two vendors picked and were using the two in practice bidding.

Take a look at the contract for Technical Instructors, you know the guys that give those supposedly five minute classes Mike is talking about.

So there are, what like 10-15 Technical Instructors are at UAL? That is a good point you make. If you would continue to read other contracts, specifically the one covering the general ramp workers, gate agents and so on you will find that they start around $10.00/hr and top out right at $20.00/hr.

But you make a good point.