Fears and Visions

Lumpsum

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Fears and Visions ( a post from the OSCrewLounge.com website)
We can rehash the fears the IBT spouts off daily, the worries and anxieties that have infiltrated our lives over the past few years. The IBT is selling nothing more than that. If we wish to, we can continue to live on in an embattled state as the Union brings its dark clouds to each and everyone of our days. They have stolen the happiness from our jobs with continual confrontation and inappropriate behavior. They promise much more of the same. What will the next two or three years of our lives look like?
We have been given a rare opportunity to reevaluate the past and to redirect our future. I remember days gone by when conversations were kinder and everyone spoke of their families and their interests when they came to work. The cockpit and the restaurant were peaceful and we all slept just a little better, more soundly. We have a unique opportunity to put the struggle and strife behind us and return to the enjoyment that we once found in a more coherent peaceful work environment.
The risk is smaller than ever my friends. No matter what the Teamsters say the pilot shortage in and of itself offers protection. I recently sat down and reviewed every video Ken Ricci put out and the sense I got is nothing but growth and prosperity as we move forward together If we just give the company an honest chance. Let's take off the shackles provided by our current representation and leave the managers the opportunity to show us what they can do. Review these videos yourself and see what you think. It appears that what lies in front of us on the path of a direct relationship with the company is progress and opportunity. They are willing to listen to feedback and make changes and address issues directly with a committee of our peers. They have made some very positive changes for the segment of our pilot group that they were able to make without negotiating them with the Union(Red Label). I think it is an example of how Mr Ricci will treat the rest of the pilots once the shackles are off. Once he can deal directly with the pilot group. Again I am referencing to the videos and the company meeting.
 

justmeinmsp

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The union is not preventing KR & co. from doing the right thing and improving the work environment. Do you honestly think the union would turn down improvements? The good times that you are reminiscing about, were for me at least, a time before KR was at the helm. Things were pretty good under Bombardier. All this negative stuff began with the arrival of KR. He is acting like a child who didn’t get his way, which is pretty remarkable if you think about it. If he hadn’t been so busy taking things away from the pilot group and closing the offices in Dallas (something he said wasn’t going to happen btw), the union vote would have gone the other way. Pull your head out of the sand
 

GooodLaaa

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Without a contract, theyre just words from Ricci. Words he isnt required to follow through with, which means he wont!
 

GlorifiedCabbie

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Without a contract, theyre just words from Ricci. Words he isnt required to follow through with, which means he wont!
Just like the last time. He made these same promises years ago and that's why we ended up with a Union in the first place.
 

cougar12

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Vote International Brotherhood of Teamsters Airline Division!

Anything else is indentured servitude


Lumpy ask Siri to explain it to you.
 

rajflyboy

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Serious A teaming going on over there. Wait until there is no union. A teaming will be the only way to get anything for yourself.
 

rajflyboy

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Lumpsum

go back to the office and start writing that resignation letter.... you know.. the one that will say you are now going home to spend more time with your family

after this decert vote Doesn’t work you may need this letter.
 

Hogprint

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Lumpsum

go back to the office and start writing that resignation letter.... you know.. the one that will say you are now going home to spend more time with your family

after this decert vote Doesn’t work you may need this letter.
If the Decert fails Lumsum will fade back into the shadows not to be heard from again until another contract battle comes up and even then his role will probably be diminished.

If you remember our battles w the company moles in ‘05, they were ever present on this forum. The likes of FamGuy, NJAScheduler, and some lesser names that escape me now. The day the TA dropped and had language they fought so hard against, they slithered back into the bog from were they came. They gave a few half hearted posts in the run up for the vote but after ratification they were never heard from again.

I’m certain Lump will follow suit if the vote goes against him.
 

rajflyboy

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what does SCOPE get you?

1. Loss of seniority on the seniority list.
2. Unequal basing system.
3. Captain upgrades out of seniority.

Should I continue ?
 

Bjtdrvr

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An interesting conversation I had with a fo pilot recently. He called to check on getting out of phenom and spoke with high level manager. That manager told him that seniority list was unfair. With his hire date there should only have been about 100 flex guys placed in front of him instead of the 200 or so. He hinted that would be changed if this pilot would vote out the union basically saying it would go date of hire. I assume they are telling the flex guys the opposite thing?
 

DirtyBeech

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An interesting conversation I had with a fo pilot recently. He called to check on getting out of phenom and spoke with high level manager. That manager told him that seniority list was unfair. With his hire date there should only have been about 100 flex guys placed in front of him instead of the 200 or so. He hinted that would be changed if this pilot would vote out the union basically saying it would go date of hire. I assume they are telling the flex guys the opposite thing?
I’m sure they’re saying whatever they feel each audience needs to hear to garner their vote.
 

TexasChallenger

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what does SCOPE get you?

1. Loss of seniority on the seniority list.
2. Unequal basing system.
3. Captain upgrades out of seniority.

Should I continue ?
Quite possibly the stupidest post ever. I think you have scope confused with International Red Label.
 

MOMOMOJO

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In all fairness I think he meant "what loss of scope gets you".

My understanding, in layman's terms, "scope" can be viewed as the protection a CBA (or any contract) gives against arbitrary and unilateral changes to not only how the company conducts business but how those changes might affect the career expectations of pilots. It the definition of exactly what is and is not covered.

However, I guess scope can also be viewed from a legal sense as precedent. So yes the company did that with Red Label.

In a sense you're both right and both in agreement.

Anybody with more knowledge want to correct my layman's definition?

Either way, both of your definitions mean one can only come to the following conclusion:

VOTE YES FOR THE IBT
 

rajflyboy

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Quite possibly the stupidest post ever. I think you have scope confused with International Red Label.
nope

thats exactly what scope and joining two company seniority lists has done to a bunch of people

scope isn’t going to help the majority (it will help the minority get more) (unfortunately)
 

Bjtdrvr

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Well SCOPE helped the fo pilots against KR vindictive actions. It was a grievance against them that kept the fo pilots flying the phenoms. If not for that he would have succeeded in stapling all fo pilots to the bottom of the seniority list(illegal) and killing the union off.
 

rajflyboy

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Well SCOPE helped the fo pilots against KR vindictive actions. It was a grievance against them that kept the fo pilots flying the phenoms. If not for that he would have succeeded in stapling all fo pilots to the bottom of the seniority list(illegal) and killing the union off.
thats why you need a union

Scope probably had little to do with that
 

TexasChallenger

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Scope is simply a tool that prevents management from using another set of pilots to fly airplanes under the company's name, such as Envoy with American or SkyWest with United, or at a minimum, to a certain degree. Truth be told, International Red Label is more of an "Alter Ego" carrier, which is a way for managements to circumvent their current roster of employees. GoJets was started as an alter ego to Trans States. Freedom Airlines was an alter ego for Mesa. Scope from the mainline carrier's CBA limits the size and number of these planes that can be flown under the flagship's namesake.
 

rajflyboy

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Scope is simply a tool that prevents management from using another set of pilots to fly airplanes under the company's name, such as Envoy with American or SkyWest with United, or at a minimum, to a certain degree. Truth be told, International Red Label is more of an "Alter Ego" carrier, which is a way for managements to circumvent their current roster of employees. GoJets was started as an alter ego to Trans States. Freedom Airlines was an alter ego for Mesa. Scope from the mainline carrier's CBA limits the size and number of these planes that can be flown under the flagship's namesake.
more applicable in the 121 world (I agree)
 

TexasChallenger

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more applicable in the 121 world (I agree)
Not necessarily. International Red Label is an alter ego. It’s a separate entity flown by out of seniority pilots with certain privileges that not everyone else enjoys. 121 or not, the effect to the rank and file is the same.
 
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