FAA Ramp Checks!

[avbug]

The sabreliner doesn't need heat, and yes, it's approved for ice. Been it many times in a sabreliner, and it handles the ice better than most. It's one of the only aircraft in it's class without heated wings (or boots) that is approved for known ice.

 

[ksu_aviator]

I have never been ramped checked (knock on wood) but I know I will soon. My story is of a friend that got ramp checked in Denver.

He worked for a hotel as a night clerk part time while he was getting his CFI. He was already a Commercial pilot. The owner of the hotel also owned a small single, I can't remember what though. Doesn't matter. Any how, the owner asked my friend to fly him to Denver and he did. Obviously it was part 91 because the airplane was owned by the passenger. After the Hotel owner had finished his business in Denver and the two of them where ready to leave, an unannounced FAA

 

[ksu_aviator]

I have never been ramped checked (knock on wood) but I know I will soon. My story is of a friend that got ramp checked/entrapped in Denver.

He worked for a hotel as a night clerk part time while he was getting his CFI. He was already a Commercial pilot. The owner of the hotel also owned a small single, I can't remember what though. Doesn't matter. Any how, the owner asked my friend to fly him to Denver and he did. Obviously it was part 91 because the airplane was owned by the passenger. After the Hotel owner had finished his business in Denver and the two of them where ready to leave, an unidentified FAA inspecter approached them. His story was that his wife was sick in Wyoming and he needed to get to her right away. He would pay their expenses if they would just take him there. Well my friend did the right thing and said no. Even though the Hotel Owner and Inspector where both pressuring him to do it. Finally my friend put his foot down and said the regs don't let him do that kind of flight. That is when the examiner identified himself and complimented my friend on making the right decision.

In my opinion, that is entrapment, but the FAA doesn't see it that way.

 

[ksu_aviator]

sorry about the double post, I'm not really sure how that happened

 

[avbug]

It's not entrapment. I don't like it when the FAA does this; I don't find it particularly ethical. However, administrative law is the game, not criminal law. There is no miranda. FAA inspectors are not law enforcement officers and not cops. You don't have the same rights you might expect under criminal law, or under that process of law.

The context of your description almost sounds like an inspector who really did want to get to Wyoming, and congratulated the pilot as a way of backing out when the pilot wouldn't go for it. That's also possible, albeit hopefully unlikely.

Inspectors and security agents are routinely sent undercover on airfields to purposely breach security. Teams travel around the country wandering on ramps, waiting to see if people question their identy or call security. Failure of any badged individual to do so can net a fine into the thousands of dollars. It happens every day; a mechanic or lineman can get caught just as easily as a pilot.

Your friend did well.

 

[ksu_aviator]

I realize that administrative law does not abide by the same rules as criminal law, but that doesn't make it right. I harp on this all the time, but administrative law falls under the Commerce Clause of the Constitution. That has been interperted to imply that civil rights are not applicable. I don't believe that too be true. While the Commerce Clause gives Congress the ability to regulate commerce, it does not give them a free for all pass to destroy and disregard our rights. I'll get off my soap box now.

 

[LR25]

I got ramped when I was flying a BE-18 one time Part 135(freight).

Here I am doing my preflight and this guy walks up and proceeds to tell me he is here to do an inspection.

I said OK, he asks for my credentials and airplane paperwork, all the while theres a ton of oil all over the airplane, inspection covers hanging by 2 screws, you know the drill. Well when we get to the airplane looksy I think he's going to gig me for the "appearence of the airplane", he looks around and we just start talking on how great a twin Beech is and so an so forth.

He gives me my papers back and he went on his way.

I think the fact that it was a BE-18 might have had something to do with it being such an easy experience.

 

[A Squared]

KSU,

>>>>I don't believe that too (sic) be true.

It really doesn't matter what you believe, what matters is what the courts believe. Like it or not, the FAA deals in administrative law, and like it or not, in administrative law, constitutional rights are not applicable.

Example: A police officer may not just stroll into your house and have a look around to see if there's any evidence of illegal activity. He has to have a warrant executed by a judge. But let's suppose you own a building which you operate a business out of. Occupational Safety is administrative law, and an OSHA inspector may in fact inspect your property for safety or health violations without probable cause or a warrant.

Likewise a police officer may not fine you for something like disturbing the peace, under our constitution such a penalty cannot be assesed without due process. (you may however waive your right to a court hearing and pay a fine based on your choice not to contest) By contrast, if the OSHA inspector finds a safety violation at your bussiness, you may indeed be fined without due process. Administrative law is indeed a very different animal, and the constitution is not necessarily applicable.

By the way, I'm still waiting for your answers to my quiz, and for you to tell us where Part 91 calls for Operations Specifications for Part 91 operators.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2162&perpage=25&pagenumber=2

Regards

 

[TurboS7]

LR25 where were you flying the BE-18???