Eagle and the APA

[Draginass]

What's the feeling over at Eagle about AA pilot manning dropping below the minimum level for AMR to continue operating AE?

 

[chignutsak]

Yawn. AMR legal will delay and stall till the cows come home. Even if Eagle disappears overnight, who would willingly step in under your scope provisions?

 

[amcnd]

I don't think AA could make it without Eagle feed. Stopping Eagle would be a dumb move.

 

[Draginass]

"Feed" wouldn't necessarily stop with the divestiture of Eagle. There's other avenues of feed other than Eagle.

Also, I think the APA is going to very aggressively pursue this contract violation. There is a 90 day time limit and the language is pretty specific as to the decision on what to do. What is somewhat nebulous is the time frame for the divestiture.

Eventual possibilities?

1. Divest eagle and contract feed from small-jet-provider lowest bidder. That would also require a modification to APA scope. Don't know about ramifications to the ALPA AE contract.

2. Divest eagle and transfer "feed" into AA proper with AA pilots and greenbook rates. No issues with scope nor restrictions to aircraft size. They'll say it'll cost too much.

3. Management deliberately points the company at the ground and takes it to BK and forces new draconian contracts on all labor groups. More difficult under new BK laws.

4. Give concessions to the APA in return for temporary relief from 7300 floor.

 

[Flyby1206]

"Feed" wouldn't necessarily stop with the divestiture of Eagle. There's other avenues of feed other than Eagle.

Also, I think the APA is going to very aggressively pursue this contract violation. There is a 90 day time limit and the language is pretty specific as to the decision on what to do. What is somewhat nebulous is the time frame for the divestiture.

Eventual possibilities?

1. Divest eagle and contract feed from small-jet-provider lowest bidder. That would also require a modification to APA scope. Don't know about ramifications to the ALPA AE contract.

2. Divest eagle and transfer "feed" into AA proper with AA pilots and greenbook rates. No issues with scope nor restrictions to aircraft size. They'll say it'll cost too much.

3. Management deliberately points the company at the ground and takes it to BK and forces new draconian contracts on all labor groups. More difficult under new BK laws.

4. Give concessions to the APA in return for temporary relief from 7300 floor.

Option 2 and 4 would be the only 'win' situations for APA. And I highly doubt either of them will happen. Option 1 is most likely, but I guarantee there will be a big scope change for APA in regards to this. Youll see some feeder other than AE flying 70-90 seat a/c on unlimited routes through the system without route restrictions that are in place today.

If APA was truly concerned about doing all flying for AMR by APA pilots then they wouldnt be pushing for AE to be divested, they would be doing whatever they could to at least keep all the flying under the AMR wholly owned umbrella.

 

[Draginass]

You say that the APA would relax scope on 70+ seat airplanes. What would compel them to do that? It the contract that has AA over the barrel on that, not the other way around.

Why would there be a big scope change? Why couldn't the present scope restrictions just be transferred to a new small jet provider?

There may well be some "creative" solutions to bring all AMR flying under AA, or at least the cockpit crewing.

I certainly don't have any idea of the ultimate outcome, but I do know that this contract stipulation is a very serious problem for AA.

 

[Flyby1206]

Im getting the impression that AMR mgmt doesnt want all flying done by APA, or even all flying to be done by AMR owned carriers. They also know the 50-seat market is dead and the current/future need for feed is in the 70-90 seat range. I think the recent scope proposal from the company indicates where they are trying to head- ie: removing route restrictions against non-wholly owned carriers, and allowing commuter carriers to fly a/c up to 76-seats or 86,000lbs (I believe those were the numbers).

I really would like to see all flying done by APA and AMR owned carriers but I think the company will demand more than APA or ALPA is willing to give for this to happen (reduced pay, benefits, pension, etc).

 

[Draginass]

AA has, for many years, been constantly trying to wriggle out of the 70 seat scope restrictions. This is nothing new or unexpected. In fact, it'd be almost disappointing if ANY side-letter/LOA/etc didn't have a lifting of 70 seat restrictions slipped in the fine print at the bottom.

With the 50-seat market decaying and restrictions on 70 seat airplanes solidly enforceable, the point of operating a separate airline with all the associated costs makes less and less sense.

Further, with the 7300 pilot floor already violated and getting worse by the month (heavy early retirements), the richly-paid AMR leadership has now painted themselves into a corner. Like all US corporate leaders, they're just going through this Kabuki dance in hopes of stalling as long as possible. Leadership and good worker relations are not even considerations in today executive world.

 

[DGdaPilot]

Sounds like Draginass has his mind up on this one.

I say "yawn". Eagle would die without AA, AA would die without Eagle.

What I find ironic is that many at APA say how they feel whipsawed against Eagle and such. But yet they wish to whipsaw Eagle against other regionals for their own benefit. Hmmmm......

One list. It's the solution to everyone's problems, except maybe AMR's.

 

[Draginass]

I think the fur is going to fly for the next nine months or so at AMR.

Actually, Eagle is hardly talked about among AA pilots other than to say it needs to go away. What and who replaces it is open to discussion.

If AA and the APA agree, AA could contract small jet feed from other small jet providers. AE itself is caught with airplanes that are rapidly going obsolete and only a few 70 seaters. I can't see how Eagle as a stand-alone company is worth anything on the market. I think Eagle needs to fundamentally change it's fleet composition to be viable or marketable.

I wonder if management could snap their fingers and make an instant change, if they would have modern efficient turboprops like the Q400 that can actually fly most places without going weight restricted.