Dinnergate

Andy

12/13/2012
Joined
Nov 28, 2001
Posts
3,101
Total Time
121312
"He worked really hard, Grampa."
"Washing machines work hard."

Name that movie/alpa song?
Frances: Talk about pissing your money away. I hope you kids see what a silly waste of resources this was.
Audrey: He worked really hard, Grandma.
Art: So do washing machines.


And yet most you couldn't pry out of the alpa clutches with a crowbar. Kinda like those in Congress or the Senate.
Exactly.
 

Remington

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 16, 2005
Posts
289
Total Time
>1
All I see is a bunch of lazy, entitled whiners who don't want to do the work but want to attack the people who are doing it.
Yea. Since the avg line dog does not want to pretend to be an important businessman, they owe you. Did you eat the same meals with alpo that you would have eaten with your family, or did you deserve a special meal?
 

PCL_128

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2002
Posts
15,296
Total Time
5000+
I eat the same meals at the same restaurants on my own dime, yes.
 

SWA Bubba

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 4, 2011
Posts
2,300
Total Time
>10000
I eat the same meals at the same restaurants on my own dime, yes.
You spend $400 per person for dinner when you're eating out on your own dime? 'Cause that's what people were bitching at, not that they expensed a dinner.

By the way, how much would they have to have spent per person before you complained about misfeasance? Any limit at all?

Bubba
 

RiddleEagle18

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Posts
640
Total Time
.
Pretty simple fix. Get one of the reps who opposed this behavior to introduce a resolution restricting reps to federal per diem rates.

There is no reason anyone should oppose that. If they do they should be easily voted out.
 

PCL_128

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2002
Posts
15,296
Total Time
5000+
You spend $400 per person for dinner when you're eating out on your own dime? 'Cause that's what people were bitching at, not that they expensed a dinner.
My impression was that he was asking me about the meals that I expensed, which rarely exceeded $100/person, but were frequently in the $75/person range.

By the way, how much would they have to have spent per person before you complained about misfeasance? Any limit at all?
I don't like the word "malfeasance," but I do think $400 is excessive, and I would probably bring it up at a local council meeting (or the APA equivalent) if I was an APA member. Perhaps a resolution putting a limit would be appropriate since there is no national oversight at an independent "union." Work within the system if you think there's a problem.
 

SWA Bubba

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 4, 2011
Posts
2,300
Total Time
>10000
My impression was that he was asking me about the meals that I expensed, which rarely exceeded $100/person, but were frequently in the $75/person range.



I don't like the word "malfeasance," but I do think $400 is excessive, and I would probably bring it up at a local council meeting (or the APA equivalent) if I was an APA member. Perhaps a resolution putting a limit would be appropriate since there is no national oversight at an independent "union." Work within the system if you think there's a problem.
Thanks for the civil reply, and I agree that there should be union oversight, probably in the form of policy guidance on expense items. However, in addition, independent oversight also needs to be available (independent from the Council, that is), to keep people honest. And as far as your point of working "within the system," I suspect the original poster believes he is doing just that--calling those officials' actions to the attention of the membership, so that they might judge those actions at election time.

Along that note, if you re-read my post, I didn't actually say "malfeasance," I said "misfeasance," which is somewhat different, implying that they intentionally violated their trust. I realize that you don't agree.

Bubba
 

Crash Pad

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Posts
1,720
Total Time
40,000
The whole thing isn't working in my head. I did a quick google and looked at the menu: $45 for a 3 course prefix (maybe I have the wrong place but the name can't be common). That doesn't add up. So I look at the bill. $14 blue cheese. Excessive a long way from $400 (bravo to the waiter who must have noticed the "yes" theme and thought of every up sell on the menu).

Then I think of pilots. The guys I work with pack a lunch on 200K a year, drink at dive bars for the deal, ask for a special everywhere, do every vacation on Max cheap, tip van drivers a buck like its a $50.

I'm trying to figure out what happened in their brains. I think they lived out a little fantasy. The: I'm a Goldman trader on the expense account after landing a 1 billion dollar deal.

They knew it was wrong but didn't care. I'm sure they are sad they got caught. I love that after they got caught they kicked in $150. That is pilot DNA right there. That is the real max number they would spend on a meal. The real Goldman trader, upon getting caught, would have laughed and tossed $500 loose cash out of his pocket and said "are we done talking about dinner I got hooker to see and blow to do".

I feel bad for every future APA rep. The expensed meal was one of the few little perks you had. Like any little perk in life some clown ruins it. In 10 years some rep. will wonder why every meal is at the same Olive Garden with water as the only drink.
 

VMA214

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 2, 2002
Posts
49
Total Time
14k +
Agree entirely, but one correction. Bill Gary is the DCA Rep NOT the Lga rep...neither of whom were there btw.


Picked it up from APC:

$3,629.56! What could you do with three thousand six hundred twenty-nine dollars and fifty-six cents? Well, nine Reps at the Allied Pilots Association, better known as the APA to those of us that pay for the "privilege" of having our dues taken from our paychecks, spent $3,629 dollars of our dues money celebrating at a dinner.

Let me say that again. 9 APA Reps spent $3,629 on one dinner and you paid for it. In case the math escapes you at the moment, that is over $400 per person! This was just for food and beverages and a tip.

What was the dinner for, you might ask? They were celebrating the passing of the contract. Can you imagine how much they would have spent had they actually gotten an industry leading contract instead of a concessionary contract?

I can understand if they celebrated getting profit sharing, or perhaps a commitment to keeping our health care or even getting parity with Delta plus 1%. But these "Gentlemen" (and I use the word with all the sarcasm I can put in that word) spent three thousand six hundred dollars of our money to celebrate a concessionary contract!

In fact, the Boston Rep, Steve Bacon in a letter to his pilots had the affront to name other past excursions into a "never land" of money spending extravaganzas as an excuse to spend your money with abandon! Then he damned all that would question his extravagance at your expense. Of course, he is not running for re-election. They just don't get it. It's NOT their money. It's OUR money.

Let me make one thing perfectly clear before I name these "Representatives" in name only. Not one of the Reps from either Charlotte or Philadelphia participated nor would they. They are as outraged about this as we are.

Here are the Reps of shame and their bases:

BOSTON:
Jim Dillard (not running for re-election)
Steve Bacon (not running for re-election)

CHICAGO:
Scott Abbot
Todd Hooper (running for re-election)

LOS ANGELES:
Steve Roach (running for re-election)
Bill Boyd (running for re-election)

ST LOUIS:
Rob Powell
Marc Speigle

La Guardia:
Bill Gary

As far as I'm concerned, they show the pilots here a complete lack of respect by spending our money without our permission. A few are running for re-election. The pilots at those bases should remember this incident and how little respect they had for their pilots and vote accordingly.

As for all nine, they need to resign as Reps. After this incident became public, they each kicked in $150, but only after they got caught and it became public and were shamed. This dinner wasn't just a mistake or an oversight. This was a deliberate attempt to live very lavishly at our expense and damn the pilots they represent. They seem to forget they are pilots first and owe us that. If they had any integrity, they should pay the entire bill.

The following is a copy of the actual restaurant receipt:

CACHAREL
2221 E. Lamar Blvd #910
Arlington, Tx 76006
(817) 640-9981
Check#: 45929 Guests: 0
Date: 01/30/15 Time: 05:44 pm
Terminal: 99 Table: 12
You have been served by --> Chris
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------
--(Seat 1) -----------------------------------------------------
5 Guinness $32.50
1 Crown Royal $10.00
3 Sam Adams Lager $19.50
4 Btl Jordan $480.00
1 Btl Bonsard $99.00
4 Jumbo Shrimp Cocktails $54.00
9 Hors d oeuvres $166.50
3 Salvenie 12yrs $42.00
2 Btl Stags Leap $240.00
1 Btl Caymus $169.00
1 Btl Opus One $299.00
1 Btl PHELPS INSIGNIA $349.00
--(Seat 2)------------------------------------------------------
1 Side Bernaise Sauce $4.50
1 Side Blue Cheese $14.25
1 Creamed Spinach $8.50
2 Side Roasted Garlic $17.00
1 Side Asparagus W/Mol $9.50
1 Sauteed Mushroom Ca $8.50
2 Side Baked Potato $17.00
3 Side Au Gratin $28.50
1 Side French Green Bean $8.50
--Seat 3)-------------------------------------------------------
3 Bf Stk Tomato Salad $28.50
1 Scallops $33.50
3 8oz Filet Mignon $104.25
3 13oz Kobe NYStrip $223.50
1 Lobster Tail $68.50
2 Petite/Herb Lobster $90.00
1 Watercress $10.50
1 Ice Cream $9.50
1 Banana Souffle $9.50
1 Chocolate Souffle $9.50
1 Cheese Cake $9.50
2 Grand Marnier $24.00
1 Baileys $10.00
2 Remy Martin VSOP $30.00
4 Cappucino $19.00
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Subtotal: $2, 788.50
FOOD TAX: $78.76
Mixed Bev Tax: $148.83
Sub W/Tax: $3, 016.09
Gratuity: $613.47
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Visa $3,629.56
Thank you!!
Visit our Banquet Rooms!

Each Rep signed the back of the check to acknowledge that they were there and for APA to pay the bill.

Let's set aside for the moment that this was stealing from the pilots. Here is also why this is important and this why it will affect us in the future. The day is fast approaching when no one will be required to pay dues to a union. Extravaganzas like this is why pilots will opt out of the union. After all, why would I pay dues so someone that claims he represents me pays $400 for a dinner on my dime and than attempts to hide it?

This is what killed ALPA for us and will kill the APA in the future as it is killing unions in states that already have "right to work" laws. These Reps, represent the very worst in unionism and why unions have lost their place in America. The leaders of these unions forget who they are, where they come from and who they represent. But we have not forgotten.

There needs to be accountability and before this behavior continues, we should insist this will never happen again. It may have been business as usual at the Old APA, but we US Airways Pilots now have a stake in what happens here and so do the American Legacy pilots at the bases these men pretend to represent. Pass the word.

On another issue, I have also been asked about the law suit the Army of Leonidas (has an army ever been mis-named) filed against each of the officers and reps of USAPA past and present. First of all, this is a ploy to get more money from their pilots. They need to show they are doing something....anything to collect money. It's no secret they are short funded and they are trying to gin up more support.

In addition, their attorneys are continuing to accumulate billable hours. Cha-ching!
You can't sue representatives of a union for voting! They represent the views of the people that have elected them, just like the West Reps did. Notice they were not sued. In spite of the warnings from Chip Munn and others that the sky is once again falling on USAPA and they had better acquiesce immediately or suffer unbearable torture, their latest attempt will go the way all the others have....no where.

The beat goes on.......

Bill Glynn
 

Andy

12/13/2012
Joined
Nov 28, 2001
Posts
3,101
Total Time
121312
Then I think of pilots. The guys I work with pack a lunch on 200K a year, drink at dive bars for the deal, ask for a special everywhere, do every vacation on Max cheap, tip van drivers a buck like its a $50.

I'm trying to figure out what happened in their brains. I think they lived out a little fantasy. The: I'm a Goldman trader on the expense account after landing a 1 billion dollar deal.

They knew it was wrong but didn't care. I'm sure they are sad they got caught. I love that after they got caught they kicked in $150. That is pilot DNA right there. That is the real max number they would spend on a meal.
$150 is more than they'd spend on a meal. How many times have I been at an airport food court and watched my captain ask how much extra it is for additional ___ topping and balk at a 75 cents upcharge. THAT's the way pilots are wired.

As for PCL defending these guys, I have some heartburn with that. There's no way that much money should have been spent for dinner even if they had landed an industry leading contract. So many union reps carve out a decade plus long career doing union work. If it's so hard and thankless, why the fork would they spend so much time doing union work? It's not like there isn't an abundance of people volunteering for union work - there are plenty of guys who are willing to take the job so they can be at home every night.
 

Flyer1015

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 13, 2004
Posts
4,502
Total Time
Moola
It's certainly more than I would have felt justified in spending. But what I would feel justified in spending is probably more than this guy would find acceptable, also. Unless union reps are eating at McDonald's, staying at the HoJo, and hitchhiking to the office, some of these idiots will never be happy.
That's the standard I was exposed to myself, and did myself, at my last ALPA carrier. Why should a rep be any different?
 

LeeRoyJenkins

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Posts
314
Total Time
11,500
I hate to break it to you, Bubba, but your union treated me to a few rather expensive meals in Dallas back in the early days after the merger was announced. I generally hate Texas, but Dallas does have some excellent steak houses.
They do. However what PCL is not telling you is that AFTER eating at one of those excellent steak houses on SWAPA's dime PCL came back to the Renaissance Hotel where he quickly made a beeline over to Whataburger to sample every Texan's favorite fast food joint. Less than an hour after eating a steak dinner!!!

There are pictures out there if anyone is interested.
 

PCL_128

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2002
Posts
15,296
Total Time
5000+
They do. However what PCL is not telling you is that AFTER eating at one of those excellent steak houses on SWAPA's dime PCL came back to the Renaissance Hotel where he quickly made a beeline over to Whataburger to sample every Texan's favorite fast food joint. Less than an hour after eating a steak dinner!!!

There are pictures out there if anyone is interested.
He's not lying. :) But I wasn't impressed with Whataburger. Sorry, Texans. In 'N Out and Five Guys are far superior.
 

twepilot

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 4, 2005
Posts
584
Total Time
19,000
Not impressed with Whataburger??? Just wow...I'm speechless.
RV
 

whymeworry?

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2005
Posts
701
Total Time
12000+
Shameful. The rank and file should demand they pay every cent back to the association. Just who do these guys think they are? God?
 

RJLoser

Well-known member
Joined
May 28, 2008
Posts
934
Total Time
00000
$150 is more than they'd spend on a meal. How many times have I been at an airport food court and watched my captain ask how much extra it is for additional ___ topping and balk at a 75 cents upcharge. THAT's the way pilots are wired.
Hahaha sooooo true.
 
Top