Delta LCC - "Song Air" - Is that true?

[General Lee]

Dogg,

No, that really isn't correct. Song will be another entity, run by separate people. John Slavaggio, who did run Midway for awhile I believe, is running the show. He is focused on this and does not concern himself with mainline. He is serious about taking on Jetblue, and according to USAToday---there will be 36 757's going up and down the East Coast, and eventually Las Vegas and maybe Phoenix will be added. The key to all of this for the New Yorkers is "choice." They will have a choice of which airports in NY to fly out of---something Jetblue does not give. The planes will be as nice or nicer than Jetblues. The liveTV will be there, along with the ability(Ok, some of the new amenities will be ready in OCTOBER---better than never) to make your own play list of songs to listen to---which sounds cool. I believe the new stuff available in October is Email access---which is also new. There will be a choice of meals (sandwiches etc.) to buy. There will also be a choice of airlines to use your frequent flyer miles---something Jetblue absolutely does not have. Regardless, Jetblue will atleast lose some passengers to Song---which doesn't help your cause. And remember when the press said that Delta Express wasn't successful and that they had to cut it by 50% after 9-11? Well, the reason they had to cut it by 50% was because Delta decided to furlough pilots after 9-11 (even though we had a no furlough clause...don't get me started..) and they decided to furlough 400 November 1st, 2001. Well, guess what? Most of the bottom 400 pilots were at Express as 737 FO's. We lost most of the FO's, and had to cancel 50% of the flights. Most of the flights were jammed full, but really breaking even and keeping market share. Our 757's at song will bring in some revenue and hurt Jetblue.

Airlinepilot,

Sure, 50 minute turns at LGA may be tough. But, you neglect to understand that a certain amount of "taxi time" is built into every flight plan. They will add 45 min to the overall time and easily make ontime arrivals and departures. I have seen 45 min on the flight plan at EWR, LAX, ATL, etc. Just wait and see.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[fredflyer]

Boy, general, I don't know what you're more excited about, the fact that Delta may be setting up a profitable airline, or the fact that jetBlue might get hurt by this.

 

[rapidD]

fredflyer

It's one and the same, dude. Those of us DAL guys on the streets want our jobs back. If it comes at your expense, thats all part of the business. Believe me, we all know the industry has changed, maybe forever. But its a dog eat dog world and there are a lot of experienced aviators, good guys, with a great big scarlet letter (or widget) on our foreheads. Five years ago, most of you would have given your left testicle to fly for Delta. Lets see what happens when JB has to start paying the bill for their jets and their maintenance. No ill will wished on anybody. We're all in this together. But a lot of us with superb flying resumes have been flipping burgers at MacDonalds. We want our seats back.

starlifterflyer

 

[Lumber Yak]

Jet Blue won't necessarily be hurt - they will likely continue to fill airplanes. Perhaps its rate of GROWTH will be reduced - it will still grow and likely continue to do well. However, Delta's market share won't ERODE quite as fast... Southwest has not been hurt on the East Coast by AirTran's growth or Jet Blue's expansion - the market size (or pie) has increased. Southwest continues to fill all of its seats...

It's like Vegas - every new casino brings more gamblers to the town and everyone benefits. It's all about GROWTH RATES...

Should be interesting to watch...

 

[Race Pilot]

Lets see what happens when JB has to start paying the bill for their jets

Here we go with that again. Well, imitation is the best form of flattery! I have a lot of friends at Delta and wish them luck with their new adventure. The folks flying for Song just need to remember that although the Live TV and larger seats are nice, it's really the customer service that keeps JetBlue customers returning. BTW, it's my understanding that not only will Song charge for the food, but also the other amenities as well, at least the TV and email part. Good luck.

 

[fredflyer]

I just think that the mentality that one airline has to fail for another to succeed is not totally accurate.

Actually, it was sort of funny the other day, after we had a real problem with a "rough" sort of passenger, the captain I was with said "with our prices, we're not taking market share from Delta, we're taking it from Greyhound"

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

OK General Lee, first I'd like to wish SONG the very best. But let's address these issues: The only cost savings the new carrier is hoping to reap is from higher aircraft utilization. They will still be strapped by the high cost of labor-- Pilots, gate-agents, maintenance, and rampers; with the exception of the FAs, who will be the happy-cheery furloughed ones making half what they used to. Frequent-flyer miles only work if you can easily redeem them-- that is why the news today has Delta looking at possible legal ramifications. JetBlue will be moving on to Chicago this spring/summer, leaving a well-established service to Florida to weather the summer storms. My feeling is that all this is too little, too late for Delta who should've addressed these LCCs immediately from the get-go. Bring on the threat of war and a sluggish economy, the price of starting this new venture could be quite costly. In the end, if Delta doesn't change it's entire price structure and ways of doing business to match this potentially successful start-up, they may be competing with THEMSELVES!!!!

 

[General Lee]

Blue Bayou,

You are talking tough for an airline with only 30 airplanes. You are wrong on many fronts. First of all, only the pilots will have the same pay scales. Everyone else---mechanics, gate agents, flight attendants--all have to go through special interviews to even get on with Song. Then, their wages are a lot less----in line with yours. If you think the pilot's wages are going to bring down Song, you are crazy. Let's look at it this way----let's say the pilots took a 20% pay cut. The Capt would lose about $50 an hour, and the 757 FO would lose $25 an hour. So, Song is saving $75 an hour on a 3 hour flight from LGA (or JFK, or EWR---choices remember--choices for Pax) to FLL---so total savings is $225. What happens if you have to hold or go-around? That savings is gone. So how much will you save in 1 year by saving $225 per flight? What, about $2 or $3mil, and that will make or break an airline? Gimmee a break. You then stated something about Iraq and how that will affect us. Well, currently we are flying lots and lots of Military charters on our MD-11's and 777's. We are making more money now on those than if they were flying Pax to Europe because the Government pays us very well to take Generals over to Kuwait. The fuel issue is a non event here because we hedge over 70% of our fuel----we have a better fuel hedging system than anyone else. How is your hedging program doing? In USAToday we were called the "analyst favorite" because we have a lot more flexibility than the other majors---with only one union (well paid though), and RJ's that can be put on routes that are thin. We have $2.6 bil in cash, and another $5 Bil we can mortgage. We have an answer to your airline--Song--that will take people away from you. We are interested in picking up any routes or slots that United or USAir want to give up. Our frequent flyer program, even with this lawsuit deal, is a heck of alot better than yours, and this illegal codeshare with NW and CO will bring us business pax that want to sit in all of the airlines crown rooms etc. We will ride this out, and you will finally have some competition that will stunt your growth. Don't count out someone who is a lot bigger than you and has a lot more money and only one union.

Bye Bye----General Lee

 

[Heavy Set]

General Lee is correct.

Delta has a lot of cash and tremendous flexibility. The fact that Song will offer comparable fares to Jetblue, similar inflight service (TVs, leather seats, etc.) and the choice of three different airports in the NYC area is very compelling. UAL is broke and may be broken further. USAirways is broke and may disappear. Airtran is growing but does not have a lot of excess cash. Jet Blue is growing but cannot expect its growth rate to continue forever - Southwest never had to compete with Delta in the same way that Jet Blue will. The East Coast will become TRENCH WARFARE for the airlines.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the Jet Blue product. Delta can leverage its lucrative European network to subsidize its Song project. Don't count Delta out when the going gets tough.... Cash is king!


Good luck to all!

 

[fredflyer]

You know what I find funny, in other posts and threads, when jetBlue guys praise their company and say how well they think it will do, they get accused of drinking the cool-aid (blue juice) and being naive by guys at other airlines; but now that Delta has come up with essentially a carbon-copy of jetBlue, maybe with a few alleged improvements, some of those same people are swimming in Song cool-aid.