China

[macdu]

d.fitz, pay is also good for FO's, also there are many very attractive free upgrade deals available in China.

Hmmm..............Where are the f/o deals in China. China produces plenty of their own f/o's. If you have concrete China f/o info please pass it along. But I would advise anyone thinking of taking an f/o contract anywhere to seriously consider you will not upgrade, no matter what the recruiter says or the airline. Except for ANA. It's a huge crap shoot.

 

[thunderworm]

Any of you guys work or know about Okay airlines in China. There is a b737 contract for captain that I might be interested in. I know that some contracts are negotiable but how much so. I would like to have buisness tickets instead of coach and more than 4 a year. Also the bonus is at the discretion of the airline. How likely are they to pay it? Any fines for not wearing hat or hard landings? Other info about quality of company would be great and how much to live in Tianjin. two bedroom apt?

 

[atpcliff]

Aviation in China is EXPLODING, and India is not too far behind!

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Any of you guys work or know about Okay airlines in China. There is a b737 contract for captain that I might be interested in. I know that some contracts are negotiable but how much so. I would like to have buisness tickets instead of coach and more than 4 a year. Also the bonus is at the discretion of the airline. How likely are they to pay it? Any fines for not wearing hat or hard landings? Other info about quality of company would be great and how much to live in Tianjin. two bedroom apt?

I suggest that you find a contract that suits your needs, there are a lot of jobs available right now and more coming in the near future so find one that has the completion bonus, commuting conditions and length that you seek instead of thinking that you can go to one of these outfits (that have a lot of applicants since they are increasing the pay) and tell them that although they don't provide business class commute, they will have to do an exception for you, that is unrealistic.

 

[Say Again Over]

Different strokes, but my preference is no completion bonuses, this only indicates an operation that has to use special tactics to keep you the full contract period, be careful.

 

[thunderworm]

I agree that the completion bonus is used to keep people there, but most contracts I have seen offer this. I was wondering if it is at the discretion of the airline do they usually pay it or not. Assuming that you complete the contract. I also agree that finding a contract that suits my needs is best and what I am looking for. To do this I am looking for information on the company and if expats are generally happy at Okay Airlines. If I go I plan on completing the contract as that is what I say I will do I just want to make sure it is a good decision first. Right now there is a lot of contracts and I want to make sure I pick the best one for me. Thanks

 

[CaptSeth]

Aviation in China is EXPLODING, and India is not too far behind!

Yes, but the explosions in India may wind up being due to CFIT judging by the quality of oversight there.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

I agree that the completion bonus is used to keep people there, but most contracts I have seen offer this. I was wondering if it is at the discretion of the airline do they usually pay it or not. Assuming that you complete the contract. I also agree that finding a contract that suits my needs is best and what I am looking for. To do this I am looking for information on the company and if expats are generally happy at Okay Airlines. If I go I plan on completing the contract as that is what I say I will do I just want to make sure it is a good decision first. Right now there is a lot of contracts and I want to make sure I pick the best one for me. Thanks

There are indeed a lot of shady outfits in China but there are also some good contracts out there, to say that as a rule of thumb you must avoid the places that offer contract completion bonus is eliminating 90% of the contracts offered currently. I recommend that not only do you look at the contract itself but that you also go with a contract company that has a good reputation, that seems to make a huge difference on regards to your experience and the support you will get, typically a good agency (PARC for example) will avoid the more infamous places and give you a more clear picture of what is like working there.

 

[macdu]

As stated there are some shady outfits in China and the ones that I hear about being the worst are the non-government owned operations, of which I think OK is, so take that for what it's worth. You have to realize here that corruption is rampant and that the government is acting like the "family", as in mafia. If an airline is allowed to operate outside the "family" then it's going to pay. What this means to the pilot contractor is that if the operating environment is difficult for the airline it will also be difficult for the pilot. An example is the CAAC is the government. They conduct checkrides, line checks, audit's, etc.......just like the FAA at home, but, with much less objectivity. If they want to slow the airline down they just attack the expat pilot for some infraction and your out. The company just lost a capt. It's difficult to fly with out qualified captains.
This may sound outrageous and it is but, it has happened to people I know.
My suggestion is to stick to the government owned operations. Then you are part of the club. You are working FOR the man, not against him. Crazy I know. But it is crazy over here. Cooperate, graduate, keep your head down, count your $$.

 

[macdu]

Another thing I want to add is, you will be operating as an "independent contractor" but you are signing agreements with the agency and the airline. At least this is the way it is for me. You don't come in and negotiate a contract with the airline. The agency and the airline have already hammered that out. You do your shopping first then decide who you would like to sign with. I have been here now for going on two years and have had two contract amendments that have been improvements to what I originally signed. It's great to be in demand.
With regards to the bonus. I would shop not based on a bonus but on what you take home every month being more important. You may for some reason not make it to the end of the contract, or you name it. Too "iffy". Look at the bonus as just that. I will add that my carrier has paid all bonus's due to all pilots at the completion of their contracts.