ASA MEC letter

[Palerider957]

Well said fins....


In an earlier posts, someone mentioned a lists of how much each delay, or problem cost United by the minute? This is actually posted somewhere??? Jesus, I wish DCI would post such a list. EVERY Captain could have a copy in their hat, then compete as to how much you have cost this POS company on an average day!!!

"Hey check it out, I burned 22K last month! Awww, that's nothin' man, I'm on track to burn 30k this month!"

That would certainly be fuel for the fire.

 

[atrdriver]

Sleepy,

I still remember giddy ASA pilots running around our crew lounge talking about the CMR airplanes we got during their strike. These ASA pilots were excited over the "new" airplanes.

Oh come on now. Those 3 planes sat on the ramp for the first 3 weeks never having been flown because every time someone got on one they wrote it up. We finally HAD to fly them because they put them on our ceertificate. NO ONE was happy to get them, and NO ONE was happy to fly them.

 

[atrdriver]

And in my opinion ASA pilots if given the chance to sign our contract as porposed to CMR based on the guarantee of 199 airframes on property would overwhelmingly pass that TA.

Pardon me smiley, we ALREADY said NO to a contract extension that would have frozen pay rates for a promise of new airplanes. Think before you type.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Pardon me smiley, we ALREADY said NO to a contract extension that would have frozen pay rates for a promise of new airplanes. Think before you type.

D@mn Good Point!

 

[CF34-3B1]

Pardon me smiley, we ALREADY said NO to a contract extension that would have frozen pay rates for a promise of new airplanes. Think before you type.

Not only did we vote no, but FAR more importantly:

WE GOT MOST OF THE AIRPLANES ANYWAY

That's the point the CMR pilots need to remember.

 

[Al Coholic]

WE GOT MOST OF THE AIRPLANES ANYWAY

How many of those airplanes are flying the line right now?

 

[P38JLightning]

"pay cut" LOA

Pardon me smiley, we ALREADY said NO to a contract extension that would have frozen pay rates for a promise of new airplanes. Think before you type.

ATR,

you are correct, and you deserve to be respected for that. however in all fairness you have to admit it was considerably more than a pay freeze. it was a request to exit section 6 negotiations and i think tacking on a 2 year freeze. thereby throwing away all 2.5 years you have been negotiating and being forced to start over at the end of two more years, then throw in management's automatic 3-4 year bad faith bargaining "grace period" by the NMB and if agreed to you would all be stuck under your current book for at least 5-6 more years, in addition to the 2.5 years you have already invested in working towards a new one.

this is about way more than the pay tables, and so was that. you said no and we also said no. from us they wanted 10% pay cuts, plus a one year freeze, plus a significant reduction in our work rules and rigs. the "reward" for both us us for agreeing to these draconian measures would have been their handshake promise to see what they can do about getting some of the phantom 85 growth jets.

this is very different, because we already have a very good contract and all that is being asked for is a pay table freeze, and in exchange we get some pretty good contract language. at the end of the freeze we will still be higher than anyone else (except XJET if at that time they are still paying out their 7% profit sharing, which is possible but highly unlikely) and it will validate our current pay scales with Delta management. that would give you guys immeasurable leverage in front of the NMB that a "Comair contract" is indeed reasonable. without that leverage, you will likely be threatened by the NMB to be "parked" for years under your current book without negotiations, after which time negotiations would resume, and still take 2 more years.

now if you are saying the ASA pilot group will, if the comair pilots vote no to this, strike mother Delta for as long as it takes to become the first carrier with the ballz to get "Comair-plus" then i will vote no on this. but if we vote no for this specificaly to back you up, and then you settle for yet another gutless "Comair-minus" contract like every other DCI carrier and others have done, well, where would that leave us?

 

[P38JLightning]

>>>>quit blaming the Delta MEC, they didn't do anything to DCI during the last negotiations, and infact allowed more 70 seat RJs for YOU. They don't control your pay scales. If the market dictates you going cheaper (like it did for us), then that is the way it is. Quit blaming Dalpa. Ridiculous!

General,

The Delta MEC allowed more 70 seaters to be outsourced in a bidding war free for all. Nothing was allowed for US as you allude to. I know on the one hand you guys want others to "share the pain" to help out the team, because you gave big cuts, but why do you think you gave those cuts? The market. Every other major was WAY below you and you had to catch up. Your "United-plus" contract just wasn's cutting it. You made sure you got 3 years out of it of course, so the "class of 2004" could walk away with the biggest [passenger] airline pension ever to be seen again for generations (then promptly freezing it for everyone else)

now all these "extra" 70 seaters will be flown by the winners of a bidding war, which ALPA endorses, and while i know you don't care much beyond the level of "hypothetical unionisim" just ask yourself how you think this will effect YOU. Picture 5 years in the future and CHQ/SKYW/MESA are flying fleets of hundreds and hundreds of E-170's and E-190's for at or well below Comair's 50 seat rates. Just how are you going to get those on your property? A Midatlantic type deal where you undercut Eagle's ancient contract with 10 year old 50 seat, first year pay, no work rules and no retirement?

its like you guys are sitting fat (although slightly less fat, but fat nonetheless) dumb and happy reading your paper while the guy in the right seat is screaming "trend vector, trend vector!" to which you reply "yeah but my speed's good right now" even though in 10 seconds it will be 30 knots below min speed, the boards are out and the engines are at idle.

The RJDC is powerless to stop all of this, but maybe they can spank ALPA for a large settlement. I doubt it, but I'm glad they are suing and making ALPA sweat. They will never sue their way to a "TK+" seniority number, which is of course what they would passionately like, but maybe at least they can help punish ALPA for this growing lorenzo "air group" situation we're all in.

 

[FlyComAirJets]

It's all about a Duty of FAIR Representation

While your and Fins post regarding the future of the E-170 at DCI are dead on, I have to take you to task for that last paragraph.

If you think that the point of the litigation is to extract vast sums of money from your union, then you are sadly mistaken. ALPA is a dry well. Class action status favors the result being an out of court mutually agreeable settlement process rather than big chunks of moolah.

Secondly, there has never has been a TK+ seniority grab by the RJDC. Shame on you, that is the urban myth that people use to create fear and mistrust between the pilot groups. While a merge of the seniority lists was the most elegant solution, that ship has apparently sailed for good with this latest RFP. I have yet to even hear it discussed in the roadshows or on the ALPA CMR BB.

The ASA pilots are a couple of contracts and one strike behind us but I thought they were catching up. Our MECs misguided actions have put a real damper on the ASA pilots attempts to catch up and, hopefully, pass us by. Bob Arnold has every right to be enraged by recent developments. Rewarding management by prematurely jumping for RFP Version 2.0 hurts all of us.

That is why I am voting NO early and often.

 

[180ToTheMarker]

The ASA pilots are a couple of contracts and one strike behind us but I thought they were catching up. Our MECs misguided actions have put a real damper on the ASA pilots attempts to catch up and, hopefully, pass us by. Bob Arnold has every right to be enraged by recent developments. Rewarding management by prematurely jumping for RFP Version 2.0 hurts all of us.

That is why I am voting NO early and often.

Thank you to all Comair guys that vote no. Those who vote yes are really cutting us off at the knees during our negotiations. As airline pilots we fly airplanes, not buy them.