Alpa at Flex?

[luckydog]

That?s something we can?t do. This integration is going to occur. It?s inevitable. How FJ pilots wish to be represented is the question.

Please explain, in detail, how/why integration is inevitable.

 

[John MClain]

Please explain, in detail, how/why integration is inevitable.

It's disappointing that 1 month into the union drive there are still those who don't understand what's happening. Here is the how/why integration IS inevitable;

When the union is voted in at Flexjet, single carrier status will be implemented. This by federal law requires integration of the seniority lists. In the unlikely event the union is not voted in, then things will continue as is with DAC management allowing Option pilots to transfer to Flexjet and proceed with their plan to slowly siphon off all new business and airplanes from Options. Eventually leaving what's left to whither on the vine and die. The only problem with that scenario and it's something that DAC management is routinely not telling you is that as soon as FlightOptions starts to shrink, the 1108 will immediately file for single carrier status regardless of whether it thinks the Flex pilots will vote yes.

The 1108 WILL NOT sacrifice the 300 or so pilots of FlightOptions. Integration will again be a legal requirement and WILL happen. FlightOptions pilots will still have the union negotiating on their behalf however and Flexjet will have God knows who negotiating the integration for us, provided we are dumb enough to vote no. If we do vote no, then we are all one big unhappy integrated family with no union, no CBA and will be AT WILL employees of Kenn Ricci.

God help us all if that happens.

C'mon Fellow Flexjet pilots, get educated about this stuff, make the smart choice and send in your card.

 

[luckydog]

It's great that the smartest guy at the company decided to answer a simple question with such a condescending tone, he'll fit right in with the IBT guys on this site.

My question still stands, how is it inevitable?

Your answers makes some very big assumptions. You take it for granted that there will even be a vote, it's not a certainty by any means. You then take it a step further that the IBT will win, again it's not even close to a given. Several of the people I know that sent in cards did so hoping for an internal union or ALPA and had no intention of voting for the IBT so cards sent in doesn't equal votes for the IBT.

Even if the IBT is voted in at FJ, does it automatically mean single carrier?

So that leaves the case where the IBT is forced to file for single carrier. In that case, I think it's a long shot that Flex pilots would vote in the IBT.

That's two cases where the outcome is unknown, not inevitable.

 

[slowtation capt]

Go to forum.ibt1108.org. All this is and has been discussed on the forum. You can and will get better answers there.

 

[The Architect]

Over and Over

My question still stands, how is it inevitable?

Your answers makes some very big assumptions. You take it for granted that there will even be a vote, it's not a certainty by any means. You then take it a step further that the IBT will win, again it's not even close to a given. Several of the people I know that sent in cards did so hoping for an internal union or ALPA and had no intention of voting for the IBT so cards sent in doesn't equal votes for the IBT.

Even if the IBT is voted in at FJ, does it automatically mean single carrier?

So that leaves the case where the IBT is forced to file for single carrier. In that case, I think it's a long shot that Flex pilots would vote in the IBT.

That's two cases where the outcome is unknown, not inevitable.

INEVITABLE. Got it.

A single carrier determination investigation and a vote for representation are two actions.

First, the IBT approaches the NMB and requests an investigation to determine if Flight Options and Flexjet are a "single carrier." Which they will certainly determine is a single carrier. Then the seniority list integration occurs. Period. Done. Inevitable!!! And that will occur as required by Federal Law.

Now, the vote for representation is what occurs as a result of the NMB determination. The result could be the IBT, an other union or no union.

But, no matter what-union or not-the single carrier and seniority list integration will occur. Inevitable!

The only question is: will both of the pilot groups have representation or not when the seniority list integration occurs?

 

[japhy]

You guys are all missing one possible outcome that ken mentioned in his last meeting at Flexjet. Single carrier is determined and the pilot groups votes for IBT, some other union or no union. If no union wins, the FO CBA becomes null and void along with the provision that requires DAC to merge seniority lists. Ken can then decide IF he wants to merge the lists or not, and he said that we are getting far enough down the road that he won't merge the lists. Something about disrupting the business too much.

 

[The Architect]

Wrong

You guys are all missing one possible outcome that ken mentioned in his last meeting at Flexjet. Single carrier is determined and the pilot groups votes for IBT, some other union or no union. If no union wins, the FO CBA becomes null and void along with the provision that requires DAC to merge seniority lists. Ken can then decide IF he wants to merge the lists or not, and he said that we are getting far enough down the road that he won't merge the lists. Something about disrupting the business too much.

That's not the way it works. Nice try.

Kenn doesn't get to decide.

The order is as I described.

The seniority list integration will happen.

 

[slowtation capt]

You guys are all missing one possible outcome that ken mentioned in his last meeting at Flexjet. Single carrier is determined and the pilot groups votes for IBT, some other union or no union. If no union wins, the FO CBA becomes null and void along with the provision that requires DAC to merge seniority lists. Ken can then decide IF he wants to merge the lists or not, and he said that we are getting far enough down the road that he won't merge the lists. Something about disrupting the business too much.

Just re-read actually what you wrote and think about it, you will know that is truly not an option, you will figure out why Kenn said that.

 

[Fresh Air]

You guys are all missing one possible outcome that ken mentioned in his last meeting at Flexjet. Single carrier is determined and the pilot groups votes for IBT, some other union or no union. If no union wins, the FO CBA becomes null and void along with the provision that requires DAC to merge seniority lists. Ken can then decide IF he wants to merge the lists or not, and he said that we are getting far enough down the road that he won't merge the lists. Something about disrupting the business too much.

OneSky management has one goal in mind: To dupe the pilot group into giving up representation. To that end, they will say anything, no matter how false, to trick the weak and uninformed into voting their way. This is a perfect example.

When single carrier status is determined (and it will be, regardless of the outcome of any representation vote) the lists will be merged, by Federal law.

 

[Dirty Squirrel]

OneSky management has one goal in mind: To dupe the pilot group into giving up representation. To that end, they will say anything, no matter how false, to trick the weak and uninformed into voting their way. This is a perfect example.

When single carrier status is determined (and it will be, regardless of the outcome of any representation vote) the lists will be merged, by Federal law.

From what I gather, the single-most hesitation of whether or not to vote in IBT 1108 (or any other union) is who to believe. Flight Options IBT or Flex management. Unless there are grey areas or loopholes in the legislation, then this article seems to sum it up...

http://www.mondaq.com/unitedstates/...ity+Integration+And+The+MccaskillBond+Statute