All Flex (One Sky) Pilots

Lumpsum

Active member
Joined
Apr 27, 2016
Messages
33
Hey Dude, why you acting like a children’s cartoon character? Maybe you should grow something. bigger than chicken’s testicles and be a man.
What does this even mean?
Why would you say something like that? What are you, 12 years old?
How can that even be allowed in an adult conversation?
This is another reason I support having a chance to vote. My post might have been a little vague, but who hasn't seen that cartoon?
The point was that all I see on this site lately is fear mongering. Trying to scare pilots into voting for the Teamsters. What kind of logic is that?
Tell me all the great things the Teamsters have done for the pilots.
The truth is all this fear talk is just a huge sign of desperation.
MagnumPI my testicles stopped growing a long time ago, if you must know.
Jezz..............!
 

shanes123

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Joined
Feb 12, 2008
Messages
966
Total Time
6000
Job protection
no more forced over 14 or threatened to be fired
able to call fatigue without being fired
able to write a broke airplane without being called up and threatened to be fired
fairness in seniority, upgrades, vacations , schedules

what great things has this company done for the pilots other then forced them to vote in a union!!!
1.56% is a small price to pay just for those things even if there was never another raise.
 

Bjtdrvr

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Don't forget the extra year of seniority pay and the fact that the pay scales are protected by a CONTRACT! Something every CEO, COO or upper management personnel has.
 

EnFuego

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Joined
Mar 27, 2018
Messages
125
What does this even mean?
Why would you say something like that? What are you, 12 years old?
How can that even be allowed in an adult conversation?
This is another reason I support having a chance to vote. My post might have been a little vague, but who hasn't seen that cartoon?
The point was that all I see on this site lately is fear mongering. Trying to scare pilots into voting for the Teamsters. What kind of logic is that?
Tell me all the great things the Teamsters have done for the pilots.
The truth is all this fear talk is just a huge sign of desperation.
MagnumPI my testicles stopped growing a long time ago, if you must know.
Jezz..............!
You accuse the posters on this site of fearmongering, but you are silent on the training center instructor (the guy who lost his arm in the motorcycle accident) who was bullying his students into signing decent cards. I want you to fill out this card and give it back to me...did I mention I'm giving you your check ride. That's not fear mongering and intimidation? You decerters accuse the Union of heavy handed tactics and bullying, but the only place that is happening is on the management side. Why is Rick writing those intimidation letters every week?
Heres what the IBT has done for us:
1) Put us legally in control of our work day. If you report before 6am, you get paid 1.5 and management can't take that away on a whim. From 12-14 hours, again 1.5 that can't be taken away. After that, you get to decide, without fear of reprisal, if you are fit to continue. AND, you get paid triple time for it from 14-16 hours. At Bombardier, these rules were never in doubt. Since DAC has taken over,the bonus in the "individual employment agreement" was ignored. They unilaterally took all of our banked sick and vacation, which is why everyone lost vacation bid time when they forced us to rebid vacations. It had nothing to do with the Union and everything to do with DAC having previously stolen our earned vacation and sick accruals!
2) Last day rules. Say you are a DFW based pilot and report at 6am in HPN. If they don't get you home by 9pm central time, you get an overtime day! And you still have the hourly overtime pay protections! You also have a contractual right to hold them to a 14 hour day on your last day! You are in control, not being pushed.
3) Representation when you are called to CGF. I know Rick would have you believe otherwise, but the stewards have already defended over a dozen original Bombardier pilots who were called in. At least two were over maintenance write ups that management wanted them to "monitor" until they got to a more schedule friendly destination. Not to mention Ali, Regan and Macek who were illegally fired.

Our latest seniority list shows that despite hiring as fast as they are able, our list is shrinking. We are in the best position to negotiate a contract that we have ever been in! The Union has stated in several letters that they will negotiate to keep red label, even expand it. And we can keep our workrules that give us a measure of control over our working lives. Unless they intend to close the doors, and you know that's not happening, management will come to the table and we will get a great contract! They are out of stall time! VOTE YES FOR IBT 1108!
 

MagnumPI

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You accuse the posters on this site of fearmongering, but you are silent on the training center instructor (the guy who lost his arm in the motorcycle accident) who was bullying his students into signing decent cards. I want you to fill out this card and give it back to me...did I mention I'm giving you your check ride. That's not fear mongering and intimidation? You decerters accuse the Union of heavy handed tactics and bullying, but the only place that is happening is on the management side. Why is Rick writing those intimidation letters every week?
Heres what the IBT has done for us:
1) Put us legally in control of our work day. If you report before 6am, you get paid 1.5 and management can't take that away on a whim. From 12-14 hours, again 1.5 that can't be taken away. After that, you get to decide, without fear of reprisal, if you are fit to continue. AND, you get paid triple time for it from 14-16 hours. At Bombardier, these rules were never in doubt. Since DAC has taken over,the bonus in the "individual employment agreement" was ignored. They unilaterally took all of our banked sick and vacation, which is why everyone lost vacation bid time when they forced us to rebid vacations. It had nothing to do with the Union and everything to do with DAC having previously stolen our earned vacation and sick accruals!
2) Last day rules. Say you are a DFW based pilot and report at 6am in HPN. If they don't get you home by 9pm central time, you get an overtime day! And you still have the hourly overtime pay protections! You also have a contractual right to hold them to a 14 hour day on your last day! You are in control, not being pushed.
3) Representation when you are called to CGF. I know Rick would have you believe otherwise, but the stewards have already defended over a dozen original Bombardier pilots who were called in. At least two were over maintenance write ups that management wanted them to "monitor" until they got to a more schedule friendly destination. Not to mention Ali, Regan and Macek who were illegally fired.

Our latest seniority list shows that despite hiring as fast as they are able, our list is shrinking. We are in the best position to negotiate a contract that we have ever been in! The Union has stated in several letters that they will negotiate to keep red label, even expand it. And we can keep our workrules that give us a measure of control over our working lives. Unless they intend to close the doors, and you know that's not happening, management will come to the table and we will get a great contract! They are out of stall time! VOTE YES FOR IBT 1108!
And it don’t mean a thing wjthout complete solidarity and support of a large majority of the pilot group. The company has been preying on that division for sometime and will continue to do so as long as the pilots allow them to.

No Lumpsum, i’m over 12, but your junvenile behavior makes me wonder about you. I ageee with Enfuego, who is truly fear mongering? It’s the usual union buster tactic of FUD utilizing middle managers. Maybe you should read Confessions of a Union Buster, Lunpsum, and then come back and talk to me.
 

MOMOMOJO

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 5, 2018
Messages
86
What does this even mean?
Why would you say something like that? What are you, 12 years old?
How can that even be allowed in an adult conversation?
This is another reason I support having a chance to vote. My post might have been a little vague, but who hasn't seen that cartoon?
The point was that all I see on this site lately is fear mongering. Trying to scare pilots into voting for the Teamsters. What kind of logic is that?
Tell me all the great things the Teamsters have done for the pilots.
The truth is all this fear talk is just a huge sign of desperation.
MagnumPI my testicles stopped growing a long time ago, if you must know.
Jezz..............!
Says the guy who cross posted a baiting cartoon character into informational discussion on every current thread.

Seeing your thin skin and now reading your response proves you're not ready for prime time.
 

Gold Label

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Apr 22, 2018
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[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]To all Flex pilots, I have flown next to you for the past +- 20 years and haven’t been vocal about much of anything really. But enough is enough. We are getting ready to commit career suicide. Are you prepared to wear a scarlet letter for the rest of your careers? We already cannot get people in the doors to even interview let alone hire. We are bleeding pilots fast. Who wants to go work for a sinking ship and get branded the rest of their lives? If you are a new hire and got bullied into sending in a card and want to eventually move on, good luck with that interview. If you are like me, a long time Captain, and just want to work another 10 years and get out of this circus, we will be looking for jobs in the next couple of years. What do you expect to achieve by voting out the union, something no other pilot group has done. Talking with friends at SW and AA, the rest of the industry is watching and it will have repercussions. Remember our pilot agreement? Then N2 takes 3 sick days, 3% of 401K, and says if you don’t like it you can leave. If ever a place needed a union this place does. 2N is surrounded by yes men and obsessing over flashing beacons and new FBOs. I don’t think he even realizes that by killing the union he will kill the company. I get it, we were all forced into a bad marriage. But we don’t need to blow up the house and kill our selves and each other. Some of you really need to think this out. Because if KR wins, we all lose.[/FONT][/FONT]

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[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]The ship of fools leading this decert campaign are the same fools that were in denial 6 or 7 years ago. What am I talking about? When Netjets started inking deals with Bombardier many of us started raising red flags as any reasonable person would. But the decert brigade accepted anything they were told. “ Pierre says that we are not for sale. Don’t worry, we got your back, everything will be Ok. This levels the playing field. If it’s good for Bombardier, it’s good for us.” And the same individuals were in shock when the big exciting announcement was made public. This vote is not in a vacuum. And the ship of fools, who lack any abilities of foresight, cannot see the implications of this vote. Voting for the IBT, the company, and our futures are not mutually exclusive. Voting to decert will destroy all 3. Some of you need to look around at the damage that has already been done. It will get much worse. How many pilots have we lost and how many have we hired in the last year? Do the math. Use some foresight. Vote for your union.[/FONT][/FONT]

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[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]So I was not able to view the company meeting as I was flying my ass off. But I am told that somehow if we vote out the IBT that we will gain a competitive advantage and unleash unlimited growth and we will run over our competition. Hmmm, this from a man who had a 1000 pilots 16 years ago, bought 350 more and is now down to 577 pilots. It seems to me that there are plenty of rich people willing to give us money but our lack of growth is because of our inability to retain and recruit pilots. So if we vote out the IBT, there will be a mass exodus of pilots that would not have left otherwise on top of the “normal” outflow. We will not be able to replace them resulting in more work for already overworked pilots. This causing more people to leave. I have only seen this management team shrink this company, not grow it. In 4 1/2 years, our good reputation in the industry and at the cocktail parties in the Hamptons has been trashed. Why should I put my faith in them or believe anything that they have to say?[/FONT][/FONT]

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[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]There is still a lot of talk from certain people about culture. Unless you have been in a coma the last 4 years, you know whatever culture we had is long since dead. It was never great, but I thought it was decent. From der fuhrer to the thief with the burning tree house, to those a little before, a little after, and those in between. They did not necessarily make the culture but those that worked under them did. Not much left of the Waterview and so many pilots have left I don’t know who is still here. Despite all the bad management over the years, this place has managed to survive because of all of the good pilots employed here. Now, with many of them gone or going and the remainder getting ready to do something stupid, this place doesn’t stand a chance. A lot of good people have voted with their feet and many more are on the way. And management is still not listening. The union being voted in after 2 years of new ownership should have sent a message as well. 20 year flight attendants fired and being replaced with cabin servers, airplanes off runways, experienced pilots leaving in droves and those that remain are at war with each other. If anyone thinks that the IBT is the cause of this they are delusional. I can only imagine the damage that will be done if this management team is left unchecked. If the IBT is voted out I suppose that I will leave to. I can’t take many more 14 hour days and much more of this culture.[/FONT][/FONT]

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[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]So the several letters from large airline unions are sending a subtle message to Flex pilots. If you can’t read between the lines then you probably have Aspergers. The pilots on the web boards and FBOs are being far less subtle. Make no mistake, whether we face future blackballing or not, we will be the pariahs of the industry. Unfortunately, other people’s perception of us is our reality. If we are viewed as rejects then we will be rejects. I already don’t want to walk in the FBOs with my uniform on let alone a terminal. Instead of solidarity, the decert brigade has been fighting the union since day 1 so of course it never had a chance. These same people that claim the IBT is pathetic have never paid dues or lifted a finger to help it. The irony is if only they had put half the effort in helping it as they have trying to hurt it, we would have one helluva union. While I can appreciate differences of opinion in voting in a union or not, voting one out is an entirely different matter. If you can’t see that, then you need to take another long hard look. Despite these individuals trying to destroy my career, I will not be hostile to them. They are imbeciles and know not what they do. Save yourself and save them from their own stupidity. Don’t follow them off a cliff. Tens of thousands of pilots are talking to us right now. Are you listening?[/FONT][/FONT]

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[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]This week at 45000 feet, in FBOs, hotels, restaurants, bars, facebook, emails, group text, etc. conversations need to be had that would not normally take place. If you are like me, you just fly your trips and go home. You find it uncomfortable to talk about unions or no union. It’s right up there with politics and religion. My understanding is that the FNGs and some people in the extra special airplanes were muscled into sending in cards. And perhaps you in order to avoid confrontation or to hedge your bets you sent in a card thinking nothing would become of it. Or they told you we were going to create an in house. The decert crew have been very aggressive utilizing several different forms of pressure. Time to make it right. Reach out to people. Make them aware of the conversations on this website. Let’s get this behind us and repair the damage done. Whether you plan on staying or going, don’t risk it. Vote for your union or start filling out applications. Your choice.[/FONT][/FONT]
 

Bjtdrvr

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Aug 27, 2015
Messages
180
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Very good post. I hope that especially those on the flex side think long and hard before voting no. There are plenty of FO pilots now flying the flex planes. Please reach out to them to find out what it was like without the union. Sure the union so far not been able to do much for the flex side. But there is now a buffer against knee jerk reactions. You can refuse trips on last day of your if they can't get you home within 14 hours. One of the biggest is not being expected to answer your phone after 10 hours! That is still in the fom. Again as in the previous post have the talks!
 

MOMOMOJO

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Joined
Apr 5, 2018
Messages
86
Two interesting observations from my current tour:

1 )

This week marks the third new hire I've met who has recounted a personal conversation with Kenn Ricci himself. Not surprisingly this new hire could tell me in depth details of the entire KR/Union history, including more information about Michael Sheringa than I doubt anyone else remembers.

2 )

More than a few "Don't Decert!" responses over the radio after announcing our call sign. Made me smile from ear to ear considering my dyed in the wool, company kool-aid drinker partner.
 

exagony

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Good luck to any decert supporters getting an airline job if you decert. The unions are watching and will sure to know who you are. They won’t want the likes of you in their pilot ranks rightfully so.
 

EnFuego

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Joined
Mar 27, 2018
Messages
125
Good luck to any decert supporters getting an airline job if you decert. The unions are watching and will sure to know who you are. They won’t want the likes of you in their pilot ranks rightfully so.
The problem is there won't be a list. Since the votes are confidential, no one will know who voted yes. Since all of the majors have contract clauses that assure the pilots doing hiring for the carrier are Union committee members, they will just not hire any of us. The safest way for them to protect their pay, work rules and benefits is to just not take a chance on Flex pilots. And that is why we must stop this now!
 

exagony

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True to a degree as the votes are anonymous, with that said the well known decert supporters will be known and any smart Flexjet or flightoptions pilot will get a screenshot of their vote for future proof.
 

MOMOMOJO

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Messages
86
The problem is there won't be a list. Since the votes are confidential, no one will know who voted yes. Since all of the majors have contract clauses that assure the pilots doing hiring for the carrier are Union committee members, they will just not hire any of us. The safest way for them to protect their pay, work rules and benefits is to just not take a chance on Flex pilots. And that is why we must stop this now!
Any pilot not ready to retire now needs to read enFuego's post again and again.

If we decertify there will be no where to go.

For those of you thinking "no problem I'll just stay at Flexjet" you must seriously consider what life will be like at Flexjet in 3 months and 3 years when our ability to even keep up with attrition let alone growth are severely impacted.

Close to 100 PRIA requests are in. Obviously people are setting up their ducks. If you're not already at the stage where PRIA is in the works you are running out of time.

If this Union decertifies remember what enFuego said: The safest way for them (Union pilots on carrier hiring committees) to protect their pay, work rules and benefits is to just not take a chance on Flex pilots.

Unless you're one of the 5% who can prove some form of current union activity (committee member, leadership etc.) since guys like Phil have ruined your ability to claim past work as evidence of solidarity, your biggest hope of moving on will be to keep the Union in place.

Is Frank's scheme worth your future dream?
 

MagnumPI

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If anyone on here doesn’t believe this whole decert has been carefully orchestrated by Kenn, then why is he now putting out a video tomorrow about voting no, and “building a culture of trust”? Guys can keep their heads in the sand and fingers in their ears all they want, but the truth is, Kenn has bankrolled this whole decert effort and is entirely behind it.

Which begs the question, Why is he doing this? Just as always, follow the money and see where it leads Kenn is a smart man. Kenn keeps throwing around the word “culture”, but there is no Bombardier culture left, and he wants the Options name gone. So what culture does that leave? I don’t think it’s one of Trust. Heck he didn’t want to give the STIP bonus years ago because he couldn’t trust the pilots to know what to do with that much money, or so it was said. So how much trust does Kenn have in OneSky Pilots?

The guys that intend to vote for FWs $h!# show will be in for a rude awakening come June 1st.
 

EnFuego

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Joined
Mar 27, 2018
Messages
125
Wow, anyone else get to be met by two management guys in one day? Jim D and Rick are out selling "cult"ure. One is down south and one up north! Grass roots and beer money sure go a long way!
 

FLFlyer1

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Oct 5, 2017
Messages
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Says the guy who cross posted a baiting cartoon character into informational discussion on every current thread.

Seeing your thin skin and now reading your response proves you're not ready for prime time.
Damn G.G. when did you get so bitter?

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Gary,

how csn you make such a threat? Idont care to dabble in either side but you literally dont know that airlines wont hire you. Also 100 pria requests? Where did you pull that from?

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Shane first off why do you spend so much time on here? Lol. Secondly how do we know all protections go away?
 

rajflyboy

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Boys and girls you need to set up some pickets at appropriate places
 

MOMOMOJO

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Apr 5, 2018
Messages
86
Damn G.G. when did you get so bitter?

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Gary,

how csn you make such a threat? Idont care to dabble in either side but you literally dont know that airlines wont hire you. Also 100 pria requests? Where did you pull that from?

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Shane first off why do you spend so much time on here? Lol. Secondly how do we know all protections go away?
Nice try although I don't consider it an insult. Between him and the rest of the guys doing the heavy lifting we'd be up a creek if it weren't for them. If you think that makes those guys bitter maybe the fact you just admitted you do nothing to help your fellow pilots is part of the reason. Takers all. You'll take whatever you can get from either side and in my book that almost makes you worse than FW.

The "close to 100 PRIA requests" comes from DL himself. If you doubt it why don't you call and ask him yourself.

The statements aren't threats. It is the reality of a highly organized industry. If you want to gamble, have at it. I sincerely hope you get what you deserve, whatever that ends up looking like.
 

EngineThunder

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After 18 years and part of the FOK club, how is PD still a first officer? Is it because he couldn't get through his Lear 45 type ride?
 

EnFuego

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Joined
Mar 27, 2018
Messages
125
Damn G.G. when did you get so bitter?

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Gary,

how csn you make such a threat? Idont care to dabble in either side but you literally dont know that airlines wont hire you. Also 100 pria requests? Where did you pull that from?

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Shane first off why do you spend so much time on here? Lol. Secondly how do we know all protections go away?
This is disgusting. You are attempting to out members by their real names in order to threaten and intimidate them. This is a blatant violation of the terms of service of this board. Remove this and your other posts immediately.
 
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