ALPA sues SKYW

[HelloNewman]

They only run classes for domiciles that have openings, duh. If there is only one opening and no classes going then they are not going to hold a class they will run a transfer. If there is an able bodied pilot ready to go now why wait while this person is in class? Remember some months attrition here is high other months its not. Eventually classes do stop and an opening in PSP for CAs only comes once in a blue moon. Sometimes when a small domicile has had an opening they have not been running classes. That is life. They also shouldnt have to run short handed just to wait for some senior dude to get there. He will just have to upgrade and transfer when his seniority can hold it.

I'm not suggesting it, it already happens. It is one of the biggest reasons that companies push so hard for PBS. What did your non-legally recognised bargaining agent get for you in return?

More days off, more flexibility, better schedule, better QOL, need I say more? Hands down my schedule is better than it would have been under the hard line system. I don't have to screw my whole month up to get one day off that I happen to need. I don't have to choose one type of trip for the entire month. What else do you want in return? If ALPA was here I am sure they would be asking for some unreasonable thing.

Well said! I hate to say it, but Newman's attitude is quite prevalent at SKYW. Lots of people are content to let other UNION airlines raise the bar and then follow it up. Pretty selfish.

As for the other arguments about show me a list of people who got fired... Who needs a list? If 1 pilot (DD) out of our 2600 was fired without just cause then that is enough. What if that one pilot were you?

It is not selfish it is simply good buisness practice. The union guys make the choice to use their union dues to try to get better contracts. Not our faults for riding on the coat tails since it is still a free market. If that one pilot were me I would do exactly what DD did. I would get a good lawyer and make millions and laugh my way to the bank. He will end up making out like a bandit. If we had a union he would simply get his job back and go back to paying dues.

 

[Ski Bum]

Why don't you get off the computer right now and call DD and ask him if he would rather have the settlment he will get from SKYW, or his job back and had never to go through this whole experience? I already know his answer, but I guess since he won't have to pay union dues he will be okay.

 

[rtmcfi]

Clueless, as well as hopeless. Welcome to my ignore list. It is short, and gets very little use. Sound familiar??? I have grown weary of correcting your numerous inaccuracies. Have fun at your next sim.

 

[Ski Bum]

More days off, more flexibility, better schedule, better QOL, need I say more? Hands down my schedule is better than it would have been under the hard line system.

Nope you aren't selfish. Ask some junior guys how they like their schedules.

The idea behind a union is to bring EVERYONE up. Not leave out 25% of the pilot group from a pay package, or sacrifice junior schedules to PBS so that top guys can get dream schedules.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

More days off, more flexibility, better schedule, better QOL, need I say more? Hands down my schedule is better than it would have been under the hard line system.

Nope you aren't selfish. Ask some junior guys how they like their schedules.

The idea behind a union is to bring EVERYONE up. Not leave out 25% of the pilot group from a pay package, or sacrifice junior schedules to PBS so that top guys can get dream schedules.

It's not just the junior skeds that are being sacrificed...I'm in one of those small senior domiciles that Newwoman keeps flapping his gums about and I've had at least 1 and usually 2 or 3 forced pairings on my bid every month since we went with PBS. Not to mention, our existing pairings would be a lot better if they didn't keep having crews from other domiciles(junior to us) not only doing some of our flying but costing the company money in additional unnecessary hotel costs!!!

 

[goodpilotithink]

Simple question....
Why would you not want a contract? It spells out everything in black and white.
Do you not think the company execs fighting ALPA at Skywest have signed contracts?
Sure they do. But whats good for them is seen as something you don't need.
You think they would agree if the BOD said "TRUST US", We will take care of you, we don't need a formal contract?

 

[Bako Cap]

3. Again you speak from paranoia not facts. Has anyone at SkyWest ever been unfairly bumped ahead in seniority? The only seniority bumps that happen are those who have been SkyWest employees before. They goto the head of the class in seniority but still have the same DOH as everyone else. It has not happened yet. The airline has been pretty good about honoring the seniority system. Some people will speak of the bucket system. That system is simply the most efficent way to use reserves. Why use 3 reserves to cover one 4 day trip when you can use one reserve in the 4 day bucket to cover the entire trip. Seniority is still honored within the bucket. This is how reserve should have been all along. 1 day bucket does locals, 2 day bucket does 2 days etc. etc. This is a reasonable efficent way to do reserve..

I just answered that you were wrong about unfair bumping out of seniority.

Now my honest answer.
When I mentioned that out of seniority happened in FAT, at the time, FAT was a growing base and SkyWest had firm orders for dozens of CRJs (several a month). Not the small stagnent CRJ base that it is today. VERY POOR planning by SGU cost many senior pilots to lose out on the pay difference between the E120 and the CRJ. One pilot who was senior to me spent over 6 months getting bypassed by pilots whom on the first day of training for SLC would put in for FAT and be awarded FAT before finishing ground school. I will say that SGU tried to do right by seniority, but would bypass due to a failure and lack of planning on their part.

Your next example of a quick filling of a base vacancy is only valid if the company isn't staffed properly. If a base cannot operate with the loss of one pilot then the base is not staffed properly. Once again poor planning by crew planning. Not an individual pilots falut, and that pilot should not be penalized for SGU's mistakes.

 

[Bako Cap]

The idea behind a union is to bring EVERYONE up. Not leave out 25% of the pilot group from a pay package, or sacrifice junior schedules to PBS so that top guys can get dream schedules.

The idea behind communism also sounds great on paper. But alas, it seems that the rich always get richer and the poorer get poorer. Ask around any airline union and there will be many stories of the senior pilots screwing the junior or newly merged pilots for their own gain. For an example; search for arguments about the change in age 60-65 rules, or the relief of jet scope clauses which brought out the proliferation of the lower paid regional pilots. You will find that the senior pilots always got to the fruit tree first and to the junior be damned. Pilot seniority system nature.

Other than that, I agree your statement sounds like a great reason and goal for a unified group. (no sarcasm)

 

[BigLebowski]

I hate to partake in this post again but there are some things being misrepresented here again.

The issue of "events" happening out of seniority. At my previous employer, which was ALPA there was an event that comes to mind when one base started going senior while the other junior. Some "shifting" around of lines, etc. started taking place and senior pilots at one domicile were bumped to reserve. These pilots put in transfer requests for a junior base and were denied. Meanwhile the company was hiring new pilots and the new guys were going to the junior base and were holding lines out of class...all the while senior guys were not allowed to transfer into this domicile.

When it was brought to ALPA's attention they said they were "looking into it". Nothing ever came of it, those pilots were stuck at that base on reserve until they got lines again.

How could this happen with "union protection?"

 

[BigLebowski]

Here's another scenario...Mesa constantly upgrades out of seniority as well as hires street Captains.

They also discriminate against employees based on their aircraft. Example, the EMB145 base in Dulles goes junior. At Mesa, if you are on an aircraft and you go to upgrade on that aircraft they run an "shortened" upgrade. i.e., 4 days of ground school, and I belive 3 sims. Now if you are on the CRJ or another aircraft and want to upgrade on another aircraft you are constantly bypassed because you won't be able to do the "shortened" training.

How can this possibly happen at a union carrier???