Gojet TA first union contract!

[Beanie]

SCREWING OTHER PILOTS OVER TO GET AHEAD MIGHT WORK BUT DO YOU THINK IT'S SMART? I KNOW I SLEEP GOOD AT NIGHT DO YOU? IF YOU DO WATCH YOUR BACK BECAUSE WHAT COMES AROUND GOES AROUND! POS!!

I didn't work there. I was at WN before they flew their first plane. I also have nothing to do with the hiring at FedEx or WN. What you are unclear on is that pilots have little to no ability to control hiring at an airline, no matter how "important" you think you are. It is perfectly clear however why you will be a regional pilot for the rest of your career.

 

[Beanie]

If the contract is so good, why so many people leaving? Hmmm.
Are they not putting it on the resume?

Are you kidding? You can't be that stupid, can you? Why are they leaving? Wait a minute, your right. No regional pilot in their right mind would leave any regional airline for FedEx or WN. My bad.

Resume? Have you heard of a little thing called a backgroud check? How about a PRIA? Do you know what that is? No, it is not a candy bar that a health conscience person eats.

FedEX Hr: "HMMMM, what is this year long period in 2005 through 2006 were you were unemployed? But your application says you flew 800 hours during that time. Let's take a look at you logbook and see what you really did. What are all these aircraft in you logbook that are CL-65's and end if GJ? Oh you lied on your app?!?! That's ok, we are gonna hire you anyway.".

Do you think Fedex, who had one of their own pilots lie on his application and then hijack a DC-10 and try to crash it into the Memphis hub, are gonna be cheap on a background check?
You should go check out MENSA. They are looking for geniuses like you.
Put down the crackpipe and try to think before you post. Take Tylenol for any headaches, Midol for any cramps.

 

[TurboAWD]

SCABS?
Then American Eagle pilots are SCABS for been B-Scale Pilots for AMR. They took mainline routes from American when they got rid of the F-100's. I am not seeing your point. Don't hate the players, hate the game.

Well, AA pilots gave up scope. TSA pilots were (are) fighting agains an alter-ego. Bottom line is all branded flying should be on one list, but it's not. People that take jobs at GoJets and Fredumb may not be scabs, but they do major harm to this career.

Turbo

 

[Beanie]

Well, AA pilots gave up scope. TSA pilots were (are) fighting agains an alter-ego. Bottom line is all branded flying should be on one list, but it's not. People that take jobs at GoJets and Fredumb may not be scabs, but they do major harm to this career.

Turbo

No more harm than guys who pay 100k to get an airline job with 300 hours through direct path programs.

 

[TurboAWD]

Well, I don't support those programs either.
Not sure I agree with you though. Flying revenue flights and paying for the privelage is one thing, paying to much for your comm/multi/inst is another.

Turbo

 

[Beanie]

It is not that they payed to much. It is that these programs flood the market with pilots and put more downward pressure on our wages than a place like GJ could ever do. Think about it. These pilots are only qualified to do one thing and that is to be a RJ fo. Then can't fly 135, most do not have their instructor tickets and the have no pratical experience. But yet they have bought an INTERVIEW with their money that is going to provide the regionals with more than enough pilots. To many pilots, much lower pay. It is simple supply and demand. Ever wondered why corporate fo's make 40-50k a year on average for first year pay? It is because the insurance companies makes them have a lot more experience and total time. Less qualified pilots equals less supply, more demand and higher pay. It is not about what they paid to get ratings, it is about economics. As a regional airline CEO, what costs you more, a first year F.O. and third year Captain or a five year F.O. and ten year Captain? Which would airline management rather pay? They both produce the exact same amount of revenue to the airline. Why pay for a 115K dollar a year crew when you can have a 70K a year crew? If you work for a regional, they do not want you there more than 5-7 years, tops. Why do you think regionals support these direct path progams, to be nice to new pilots? No, they do it to keep the pilot supply up and wages down. Becoming a pilot now has almost become akin to becoming a bartender. Anybody can do it, and that ain't a good thing for career pilots. You will never get a "career" contract with a regional. If they did that, how can they get you to leave at the 5 year mark? It is a a great game plan, and nobody on this side sees it. Managements goal is to make you so miserable that by your 5th year you are thinking of leaving and by your 7th, your gone. How you ask? Crappy pay, crappy contracts or stalled negotiations (I am former ASA, so I know), crappy QOL and crappy moral. They are not mismanaging, they are playing the regional airline economic handbook, and we are playing right along.

 

[f/o(forever)]

It is not that they payed to much. It is that these programs flood the market with pilots and put more downward pressure on our wages than a place like GJ could ever do. Think about it. These pilots are only qualified to do one thing and that is to be a RJ fo. Then can't fly 135, most do not have their instructor tickets and the have no practical experience. But yet they have bought an INTERVIEW with their money that is going to provide the regionals with more than enough pilots. To many pilots, much lower pay. It is simple supply and demand. Ever wondered why corporate fo's make 40-50k a year on average for first year pay? It is because the insurance companies makes them have a lot more experience and total time. Less qualified pilots equals less supply, more demand and higher pay. It is not about what they paid to get ratings, it is about economics. As a regional airline CEO, what costs you more, a first year F.O. and third year Captain or a five year F.O. and ten year Captain? Which would airline management rather pay? They both produce the exact same amount of revenue to the airline. Why pay for a 115K dollar a year crew when you can have a 70K a year crew? If you work for a regional, they do not want you there more than 5-7 years, tops. Why do you think regionals support these direct path progams, to be nice to new pilots? No, they do it to keep the pilot supply up and wages down. Becoming a pilot now has almost become akin to becoming a bartender. Anybody can do it, and that ain't a good thing for career pilots. You will never get a "career" contract with a regional. If they did that, how can they get you to leave at the 5 year mark? It is a a great game plan, and nobody on this side sees it. Managements goal is to make you so miserable that by your 5th year you are thinking of leaving and by your 7th, your gone. How you ask? Crappy pay, crappy contracts or stalled negotiations (I am former ASA, so I know), crappy QOL and crappy moral. They are not mismanaging, they are playing the regional airline economic handbook, and we are playing right along.

In this post you hit the nail on the head! But you still don't see how that will affect you do you? You said supply and demand has caused the industry to be able to hire low qualified pilots, what do you think will happen when WN figures this out? Think they will just let the regionals see all of the savings and profit? What happens when the "majors" start alter ego carriers? Are you going to support that as well? If you do you will see yourself out of a job.

I didn't work there. I was at WN before they flew their first plane. I also have nothing to do with the hiring at FedEx or WN. What you are unclear on is that pilots have little to no ability to control hiring at an airline, no matter how "important" you think you are. It is perfectly clear however why you will be a regional pilot for the rest of your career

.

You do not know me or my experience level so do not assume anything. When I got hired at the regional level I fully intended to move on the the majors, but the times have changed, Haven't they? And don't think I don't know this industry I'm second generation and I have a degree in aviation (not that I'm special or that it is worth any thing).

MY POINT IS WHY SUPPORT ANY EFFORT OF MANAGEMENT OR IN TRANS STATES HOLDINGS CASE OWNERS TO DESTROY THIS CARRIER FOR GREED!!

Hulas had to show a profit to the DOT enable to start gojets, Know what it was for a year? Around 23 million!!

You may be right pilots cannot control whom gets a job, but I for one will do everything I can to NOT enable management to drive the career further into the gutter.

I also know of companies that post a list of potential new hires so that their current employees can comment on those people. I know for a fact that any gojets pilots on that list are given negative comments from ex TSA'ers! I personally know the employees doing that!

You have your "job" so just give up and don't give a damn about the industry or other pilots trying to build this profession back to what it was. I on the other hand will always try to raise the bar.

 

[TurboAWD]

Beanie,

I agree with what you said...
However, from a moral standpoint, working for GoJet when the TSA pilots were actively fighting for a fair contract and scope, is wrong.

WRONG.

It does hurt the TSA pilots.
It does hurt other pilots.
And the guys that went there (esp ex TSA pilots) should know better.

Turbo

 

[Shrek]

Especially when there is a new 50 seat rate over at Go Jet...............

Let the whipsaw games begin in earnest. The company has been saying from the beginning that our new contract will be concessionary...........aint gonna happen. We won't blink.

 

[Beanie]

Shrek and Turbo...I do NOT disagree with you...I know you guys are pretty upset (unerstatement) about what has happened, and if it was me, I would be too. However, do not take my post as an endorsment or support of GJ or pilot mills. I do understand the ramifications. I am simply trying to point out that it is not just one thing that is killing us, it is several. I am trying to sound the alarm and wake pilots up to the fact that what we are doing is not working. No jumpseating, blacklist, threats....These are attacking the symptom, not the disease. You guys know that most pilots take the first job offered. You guys know that people that are thinking about becoming pilots are naive and believe everything they hear. They will jump at the first promise thrown at them. If you were a brand new wannabe pilot and you had the choice of going someplace and them promising you a fo job with 350 hours or another place that just was gonna get you your ratings, which would you chose. I know you have the benefit of experience now, but they don't. They are unwitting pawns in a game. Did you know some professional organizatios (read unions here) limit the number of certifications that are handed out to keep the market from being flooded and driving down wages for exsisting members? I am not talking about private/instrument pilots, I am talking about making airline pilots get another certificate, one controlled by our organizations, that will help control our wages, kinda like OPEC. That is when we will really control our own careers.


As a side note to Shrek. Man you are bitter. Just because I use the pronoun "you" does not mean that it includes you personally. It applies only to the people that fall into that catagory that was relevant to the statement. This is very common in writing. In that case "you" don't know "me" either. For you call me out personally for not knowing "you" then assume that you know "me" is a bit arrogant. My statement was a generalization, not directed to anyone specifically. Yours was directed at me personally. This is what we call being a hypocrite. Take that anger and channel it. You could be President if you did. Just undersand that not everything has to do with "you" shrek. It makes you come off as very self-conscience and self-centered.

BTW, the contract is not out yet, no one knows what is included. You have asked yourself if it includes a 50 seat rate. To post on here that it does when you (this means you personally this time) do not know for a fact makes you part of the problem and makes you lose credibility. It very well could, but the general airline community is not privy to it yet, so don't speak of things you cannot prove. Kinda like the paying for CASS deal. Take some of you own advice and quit assuming so much. And please don't come back that you heard it from some really "inside source" that it did. That is so tired.