GoodTimes
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Zlin Savage
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VNugget
suck squeeze bang blow
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2002
- Posts
- 809
It's an OK flying plane with a couple of quirks. It doesn't need a lot of rudder in the turns, and barely needs any in the climb. I don't know what they've done with the ailerons (might have something to do with them being reflexed a few degrees up when neutral) but the force gradient is really curved... very light in the middle, but heavy as you go toward the edges. It was really weird at first, but now I actually kinda like it. They feel like they're spring-centered, but they're not.
The biggest thing you'll notice about the plane is that the wing stalls all at once, and with no warning. A (either) wing will drop on you readily, unless you have some flaps out. It wants to spin on you very easily for a plane not approved for spins. On landing, don't start any considerable flare above a couple of inches above the runway, or it'll stall all at once (at ANY attude even a hair steeper than 3-point attitude) and you'll drop it in. Ask me how I know. I guess the silver lining is that if you hit the mains first, the wing stalls as it pitches up instead of increasing the lift and popping you back up in the air. And for the love of God don't try a 3-point takeoff! And it could use a little less toe-in, it's really swervy on touchdown.
The cowl is really low and the attitudes will surprise you until you get used to them. Especially in a wheel landing. It's kind of unnerving the first few times rolling out after you pin the mains down, looking ahead at nothing but ground.
The brakes, Jesus Christ, the brakes! They're toe brakes, and their angle is really steep, making it very hard to use the rudder pedals (which are just a frame, and not a solid surface) without inputting some brake. At least there's extender blocks on the front brakes. It's way worse in the back. The toe brakes are actually angled back! And as you slide your toes down so as to not push on the brake, they get ready to slip and push through the hole formed by the frame. I don't know what kind of dope they were smoking. Wear the smallest shoes you have. And consciously remind yourself to get your toes off the brakes before the flare. Oh, and from the front seat, once a rudder pedal is hard over, you can't use the brake on that side because the pedal hits the firewall, so you better plan your turns well.
The trim is in notches, so you may not be able to get it trimmed perfectly. And it's weird to use.
The flaps take the strength of a gorilla to extend fully. They'd be easier if the lever was longer (or you wank with your left hand). But they make for a steep, fun approach,where your butt is sliding out of the (uncomfortable, unadjustable) seat. In such case, it helps to use a little power to manage the flare, and the rollouts can incredibly short. Like a hundred feet with a moderate headwind. Then again, I still have yet to fly a Supercub or something comparable.
The engine... with the 100 horse option and a light loading, you'll be blasting out of the airport like a bat out of hell. (or a homesick angel, to be an equal opportunity metaphor user.) But make sure it's set up right. The one we have has the idle set too low (which I hear is bad for the gearbox anyway) and it quits if you're on the ground and have the throttle pulled too far back. And when it quits, it'll let you know unamibuously, as the prop slams to a sudden stop within a fraction of a rev. Can be quite unnerving to someone new to the Rotax. Our other Rotax in the CT is the opposite, with the idle set ridiculously high (presumably to protect the gearbox) and it keeps on trucking with the throttle all the way back, forcing you to fly a 747 pattern and not letting you practice a forced landing. Back to the Savege, the throttle cables are not your standard push/pull cables, but pull cables only, that I'm pretty sure are from a bicycle brake. The rubber sheath regularly pulls out of the bracket it sits in, making it kind of jam whe you try to get the throttle all the way back, forcing you to pop it back in by hand. Cute. And the throttle is always creeping forward a little bit, since it's spring loaded that way.
The tailplane is actually HINGED to completely fold up, thus putting 100% of the load on the brace wires, which, once you see them up close, are not very confidence-inspiring. I wish the end fittings also weren't wrapped in black shrink tube, but you take what you can get. At least they're doubled. Haven't heard yet about an epidemic of Savage cubs raining down from the skies.
Surely they could have designed a better cowl. Ours has only been flying I'd say less than 20-30 hours, and you can see where the spinner is eating into the cowl, and the cowl is eating into the oil cooler. Again, cute. Oh, and the fabric is is life-limited to something like 2000 hours. Don't quote me on that though.
The visibility is wonderful all around.
Let me know if you have any other quesions, I'd be happy to share more specifics.
The biggest thing you'll notice about the plane is that the wing stalls all at once, and with no warning. A (either) wing will drop on you readily, unless you have some flaps out. It wants to spin on you very easily for a plane not approved for spins. On landing, don't start any considerable flare above a couple of inches above the runway, or it'll stall all at once (at ANY attude even a hair steeper than 3-point attitude) and you'll drop it in. Ask me how I know. I guess the silver lining is that if you hit the mains first, the wing stalls as it pitches up instead of increasing the lift and popping you back up in the air. And for the love of God don't try a 3-point takeoff! And it could use a little less toe-in, it's really swervy on touchdown.
The cowl is really low and the attitudes will surprise you until you get used to them. Especially in a wheel landing. It's kind of unnerving the first few times rolling out after you pin the mains down, looking ahead at nothing but ground.
The brakes, Jesus Christ, the brakes! They're toe brakes, and their angle is really steep, making it very hard to use the rudder pedals (which are just a frame, and not a solid surface) without inputting some brake. At least there's extender blocks on the front brakes. It's way worse in the back. The toe brakes are actually angled back! And as you slide your toes down so as to not push on the brake, they get ready to slip and push through the hole formed by the frame. I don't know what kind of dope they were smoking. Wear the smallest shoes you have. And consciously remind yourself to get your toes off the brakes before the flare. Oh, and from the front seat, once a rudder pedal is hard over, you can't use the brake on that side because the pedal hits the firewall, so you better plan your turns well.
The trim is in notches, so you may not be able to get it trimmed perfectly. And it's weird to use.
The flaps take the strength of a gorilla to extend fully. They'd be easier if the lever was longer (or you wank with your left hand). But they make for a steep, fun approach,where your butt is sliding out of the (uncomfortable, unadjustable) seat. In such case, it helps to use a little power to manage the flare, and the rollouts can incredibly short. Like a hundred feet with a moderate headwind. Then again, I still have yet to fly a Supercub or something comparable.
The engine... with the 100 horse option and a light loading, you'll be blasting out of the airport like a bat out of hell. (or a homesick angel, to be an equal opportunity metaphor user.) But make sure it's set up right. The one we have has the idle set too low (which I hear is bad for the gearbox anyway) and it quits if you're on the ground and have the throttle pulled too far back. And when it quits, it'll let you know unamibuously, as the prop slams to a sudden stop within a fraction of a rev. Can be quite unnerving to someone new to the Rotax. Our other Rotax in the CT is the opposite, with the idle set ridiculously high (presumably to protect the gearbox) and it keeps on trucking with the throttle all the way back, forcing you to fly a 747 pattern and not letting you practice a forced landing. Back to the Savege, the throttle cables are not your standard push/pull cables, but pull cables only, that I'm pretty sure are from a bicycle brake. The rubber sheath regularly pulls out of the bracket it sits in, making it kind of jam whe you try to get the throttle all the way back, forcing you to pop it back in by hand. Cute. And the throttle is always creeping forward a little bit, since it's spring loaded that way.
The tailplane is actually HINGED to completely fold up, thus putting 100% of the load on the brace wires, which, once you see them up close, are not very confidence-inspiring. I wish the end fittings also weren't wrapped in black shrink tube, but you take what you can get. At least they're doubled. Haven't heard yet about an epidemic of Savage cubs raining down from the skies.
Surely they could have designed a better cowl. Ours has only been flying I'd say less than 20-30 hours, and you can see where the spinner is eating into the cowl, and the cowl is eating into the oil cooler. Again, cute. Oh, and the fabric is is life-limited to something like 2000 hours. Don't quote me on that though.
The visibility is wonderful all around.
Let me know if you have any other quesions, I'd be happy to share more specifics.
Last edited:
Great write-up Nugget, good stuff. I've seen the Savage before on their website, thought it looked like a cool little ship, and reasonably priced. Sounds like it has a few weird quirks though, especially the brake/rudder pedal setup. I flew an RV-6 that had the pedals positioned similarly; it was horrid for any ground ops... no matter how hard I tried to avoid the brakes, I kept dragging them.
Funny thing about the Savage is its similarity to the Rans S-7; they look virtually identical but the Savage is a bit cheaper in the ready-to-fly version.
Funny thing about the Savage is its similarity to the Rans S-7; they look virtually identical but the Savage is a bit cheaper in the ready-to-fly version.
No kidding! Based on Nugget's writeup, I'd say that's an understatement!!!
VNugget
suck squeeze bang blow
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2002
- Posts
- 809
VNugget
suck squeeze bang blow
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2002
- Posts
- 809
Another update: We just put VG's on it, and it's a whole new plane! Now you actually have time to think during the flare, and, if it's going anything less than ideally perfect, are able to do something about it. Comparatively, just adding the washout by itself did a little, but not much. Now I'm not scared to check people out in it anymore 
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