WSK on Pilot Banter, Training Records, & Crew Rest / Commuting

[ThisistheDream]

Commuting is not the issue with any fatigue or being over tired than normal, its the fact that the FAA feels being on duty for 16 hours straight is okay!!!!! I used to commute, but now that I am home with a family that has a 5yr old, 3 yr old and a new born in the house. I get 5 to 6 hours of sleep a night if I am lucky which is something i am sure alot of other pilots deal with also. The issue that causes the pilots fatigue is that they are sometimes scheduled to work for 10 upto 16 hours in one day!! In a perfect world we all would get good sleep and have no distractions, but thats will never happen the only way to insure that pilots are rested when there skills are tested is to make sure that when they are faced with night icing conditions in blowing snow, or dealing with an engine failure, they are not dealing with this task while going on the 12th, 13th,14th, 15th or 16th hour of being on duty!!! the normal 40 hours a week job will have you be on duty maybe 9 hours a day and once in awhile they need you to stay an extra hour or two and all they do is sit at a desk etc..The FAA should lower the maximum amout of time pilots can wbe on duty by reducing it to 10 or 11 max, with no exceptions..This would help increase safety related issues to fatigue. Even if you had 12 hours of perfect sleep the night before you start your trip and on the last leg of the night landing in MDW, blowing snow with ICE going past 11 or 12 hours of duty, fatigue will also become another issue you will have to deal by no fault of your own since you got 12 hours of great sleep the night before. The reason your now dealing with fatigue and being overtired and lacking in better attention is the fault of the FAA allowing you to do it!!! Some companies have lower times in the contract maybe 14 or 14.5 hrs max but that is still too many hours to be on duty.. Pilots will have to start calling in fatigued more to make it safer. If you worked a 9-6 job and had to work a 14.5 hour day, you wouldnt be done until 1130pm !!!!!!!!! 9am to 1130 PM are you kidding me those people would go home well before that and they dont have lives in there hands!! Even if we are responsible and commute in the night before, get 12 hours of sleep and then 14.5 hours later trying to land while tired and fatigued its the FAA and the airline that is being irresponsible to us and the passengers

 

[ACL65PILOT]

One thing we as pilots need to remember as well is this. If you get the max duty day reduced, you will be required to work more days and be away from your family more. I do not see the companies making schedules more efficient, but instead making everyone work to their min days off.

As they say be careful what you wish for....
Here at DAL we have a max of a 13 hr duty day for domestic ops. It seems to work well in about 90% of the trips.

 

[ThisistheDream]

I totally agree that is what would probally happen, but it would force the airlines to make very efficient trips also. At NWA for now we have a 14 max duty domestic which from what I have seen doesnt happen that much

 

[flynryan15]

Congress should not bes surprised by what we make. Senator John McCain has a son that flies for AMR. He is fully aware of what we make. Nothing will change in regards to our pay.

Colgan senior is a Senator form VA!

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Even better!

 

[imacdog]

I'm not a big fan of partial automation for this reason alone. Give me FULL autopilot WITH autothrottles, or turn ALL of it off. None of this "I have to fly part of the plane but not the other part" nonsense... At AirTran in high winds or tricky approaches, once everything was stable, checklists were done, and I could concentrate, ALL the automation came off in the real world. Still does today. There's no replacement for a good pilot's stick and rudder skills and good judgment.

So you're saying you always hand-flew your CRJ 100% of the time?

 

[imacdog]

Come on folks...commuting has to be done responsibly...

Commuting by the FO did not cause this crash - a loss of airspeed awareness on the flying pilot's part, and completely botched stall recovery (again, the flying pilot) is what put this plane into the ground.

 

[Lear70]

So you're saying you always hand-flew your CRJ 100% of the time?

Let's look at the key words in that sentence again.

At AirTran in high winds or tricky approaches, once everything was stable, checklists were done, and I could concentrate, ALL the automation came off in the real world. Still does today.

Make more sense now that I've highlighted the part critical for proper understanding of the statement?

Yes, I did the same thing at PCL. Yes, I did the same thing on the 727. Yes, I still do.

 

[imacdog]

Let's look at the key words in that sentence again.

Actually I was more interested in this sentence:

I'm not a big fan of partial automation for this reason alone.

How many thousands upons thousands of flights are completed safely with partial automation every day?

 

[Lear70]

How many thousands upons thousands of flights are completed safely with partial automation every day?

There have been numerous incidents (read near-accidents) caused by partial automation than you know... I wish unions would publish more of the ASAP and FOQA data.

I watched a crew almost crash a 717 in PHF trying to let the automation land in crappy weather with high gusty winds, they went around and tried the approach 3 times before they landed it, and STILL came within inches of dragging the wingtip. We had just landed hours before in WORSE winds without a problem... Challenging? Yes. Close to causing an accident like they did? No way.

Automation is one of the things that's making aviation safer, but it's also creating pi$$-poor stick and rudder pilots that can't hack it when the rubber meets the road. If a pilots doesn't think they can (and should) fly the airplane better than the automation when things are dicey, maybe they should find a different line of work?