US Airways Suspends Pilot

[~~~^~~~]

Avbug:

Osama Bin Laden is a human being - what is your point?

Since you advocate no respect for those in uniform - why exactly do you advocate such compliance with airport security screeners that are not following FAA directives? Don't they wear uniforms?

Your arguement lacks logic, or reason.

Sure we should be nice to others. Even more so when we are in uniform representing the airline that we hope folks will come fly. People seek me out at the airport for information because I am in uniform and it is always a pleasure to be of assistance. People follow my directions inside the aircraft because the uniform communicates to them in non-verbal ways that I have information which helps them, or promotes their safety.

Nobody likes arrogance - most folks in uniform are gentlemen. PHX 767 is correct it is judgement.

Capt_Z_man: Maybe a high school diploma is not needed to be a screener - but would you agree that the ability to read and understand the FAA directives are important? Pretty much that ability is High School equivalent work.

Besides, I would like the position of screener elevated to the same status of other law enforcement officials. I believe that they have educational requirements - at least the Police do where I live and in order to get promoted they have to achieve higher educational standards.

 

[capt_zman]

I just don't know where the assumption that these people can't read and follow directions comes from. Yeah, yeah, I've seen them, talked with them and agree that some aren't the most intelligent in the world, but to place the "incapable" stereotype on all of them is downright wrong.

As stated previously, pilots make many decisions over the course of a day, and for that USAir pilot, it was a bad one.

 

[Dude Groovy]

I keep hearing that what the guy said was stupid or irresponsible. I disagree. If what has been reported is correct, I totally agree that why would you worry about tweezers when the pilot can crash the plane. When it was said or how his attitude was when it was said is immaterial. That is what we should be focusing on. He didn't yell "Fire" in a theatre. He simply stated an opinion. What is this, Nazi germany? Where does it say in the Constitution or in our traditions that we can't speak our minds. Did the screener really think he was a threat? Talk about pilot arrogance. My two cents.

 

[ifly4food]

Folks, let's see if we can bring this thread back to the original discussion.

Let's keep the personal attacks out of this. We don't need a flame war here.
Thank you.
Ifly4food
Moderator

 

[avbug]

Those comments were rightfully directed toward commentary that labled screeners as dimwitted, undereducated, and other derogatory terminology. The point was simple; approaching others with such an attitude can only cause problems. I have seen postings attacking screeners and personnel for their clothing, for crying out loud. This has nothing to do with the issue, but in lieu of any other angle from which to attack, put-downs because of apparel is far from professional.

My commentary has been a call to come back on track and come away from the attacks. Be professional, act professional. I do NOT see the stance that acting superior (as indicated with direct quotes; no fudging there) is inappropriate, could be remotely construed as an attack. Indeed, any such commentary was in response to an attack on others, who likely are not deserving, and are almost certainly not present on this site to defend themselves.

If someone took a poke at someone else near me while standing in line for a movie, you'd probably see me react the same way.

I don't see that the issue has left the purpose of the thread in the least. I see the pride of the uniform and the predjudice against those in security, as central to the issue at hand. Indeed, central to the cause of the issue at hand.

As I stated before, I am tired of this topic, and would prefer to discuss it no more. I didn't come here to debate, nor do I intend to. Equality isn't an opinion, it's a statement of fact; moral and legal. I see many postings condemning the unrepresented parties (the screeners, primarily) for their education, their integrity, their goals, and their purpose, and largely these condemnations are grounded in highly intellectual commentary such as 'burger flipping' such and such. Highly demeaning.

I've labled no one I disagree with as haughty, but certainly will stand by the assertion that to decree that being a pilot makes us somehow superior or better than another, is patently wrong. This isn't even a debatable point; it's grounded in federal law,and in the tenets of every major religion. We are equal, period. Until we can accept that, then we can go nowhere in approaching the perceived problem. Those who believe they are better for being a pilot, are by definition haughty, and need no label. It comes with the perch.

 

[TWA Dude]

Where does it say in the Constitution or in our traditions that we can't speak our minds. Did the screener really think he was a threat? Talk about pilot arrogance. My two cents.

It's often misunderstood, but the Constitutional right to free speech is not without conditions. Some things people say are slanderous and some things can incite violence. Both are illegal. The captain had a valid point that every airline pilot agrees with, however, he chose to speak his mind in a completely inappropriate place and time. And he knew better! I have zero sympathy for what happens to him.

 

[~~~^~~~]

As I stated before, I am tired of this topic, and would prefer to discuss it no more. I didn't come here to debate,

Ok, then I am completely confused as to what purpose a bulletin board serves. You did not earnestly expect us just to accept your opinion without commentary, did you? What fun would that be?

Equality isn't an opinion, it's a statement of fact; moral and legal.

Ok, if we are so equal - why does my wife look better than me? Why do some folks pass checkrides and others fail? Why did some of us put the effort and money into our preparing for the future, while others decided to buy malt liquor?

Face it, we are not equal. People make choices, some folks are lucky, some are unfortunate. America is about equality of opportunity - what we do with that opportunity is up to each individual.

I doubt many of our friends in the airport security "profession" had that career in mind more than a week before they started their duties. To me that is a strong indication that it is not a career, but simply a job. A way to make $300 a week and a gig which will be replaced when a $325 a week opportunity comes along. I would like to see the position elevated to the level of a professional officer of the law. (They have the power - don't they need the training to go with it?)

I see many postings condemning the unrepresented parties

They have you to represent them - what else could they want?

 

[Caveman]

I think some of us are missing the point. The fact he is an airline pilot is irrelavant. What is relevant and down right scary is that a citizen of these United States was JAILED for daring to ask a reasonable question. Period. End of story. If that doesn't make the hairs on the back of your neck stand up we are all in deep sh*t.

 

[DougCorp-9]

Beechnut-

I find it a disgrace that a professional pilot in charge of a multimillion dollar aircraft, responsible for the safety and comfort of at least a 100 passengers, can't be treated with the respect and admiration HE DESERVES. When he opens his mouth people should shut up and listen... THAT MEANS YOU. It's obvious that a lot of people are offended by your remarks. Airline Captains do not attain their positions through the level of discipline it takes to get hired by Argenbright, but rather it is acquired by years of blood, sweet, and tears... Do you think Airline Pilot's would be where they're at today "if they kept their mouth's shut?" You obviously have no respect for a job that requires instantaneous decision making that at times that can decide the fate of hundreds of people in a single second. No wonder the term wash out exists.





Boy do we have a bit of a GOD complex today. This guy that made the comments is just an airline pilot like you and I and should have respect for the security people that are doing their jobs. The security people don't make the rules you know.

 

[enigma]

I will tell you this, and be done with this thread; it's sickened me. A short time ago I lost my employment. One day I had everything, and the next it was gone. Much like many of us. I lost my house, my car, pawned my possessions. I couldn't afford a single present for my children this Christmas. I had a potentially life threatening medical condition, and couldn't be seen by a doctor because I had no money, and no insurance. I sought public housing, but was unable to recieve it because of so many others here seeking the same thing.

I am back today, just barely, but thanks only to another person who helped me. Some of these events happened only weeks ago. I am flying, I am working, I have purpose.

Don't be lead to believe you are superior in any way to screeners, passengers, those who work with the FAA, or others in any capacity. You are not. You are a person. You have one vote and one voice in life, as do they. Your value is the same. You may make more money, but you are no more important. To those who would believe otherwise, I pity you in your prison.

AVBUG,

First. Sorry to hear about your unfortunate circumstance. Glad you're back flying and have purpose.

Second. You're absolutely correct, we pilots are in no way superior to screeners, et al. We used to have more responsibility (and some may argue that we still do), than the screeners; and our job required far greater skills, mental stability, emotional maturity, etc, etc, etc,. That was prior to the new, post Sept, 11 security directives.
Now, the screeners job performance is just as vital to my safety as my own performance. Maybe more so, as a quick count shows that security breakdowns killed more passengers last year than did pilot error.

Which brings me to my point. The attitudes that you are arguing against in this series of posts come from the frustrations that have arisen amongst pilots who see a double standard being used in dealing with us. I really doubt that these posters really believe that they are in fact superior, as a person, to a screener.

But we do know that the pilot had to spend years getting to the point where he/she could take on the level of responsibility that an professional pilot takes on, and we are being controlled by a group that spent one day watching a video. It's not a personal issue with the screeners, (well maybe it is to some posters in this string, but those are in the vast minority), it's a commentary on the disparity between their level of responsibilty and the training they are given, versus the level of responsibility and training pilots are given. The disdain you read is based upon their qualifications, not their personal worth. If the Feds decided to use real law enforcement officers as airport security, then I'm sure that you would see most of these discussions disappear.

You're missing a great opportunity to educate, when you get side tracked on the personal worth issue.

regards,
8N