UAL MEC Endorses 14.7% Paycut

[46Driver]

The assumption that reverse discrimination is just as bad and illegal as any other type of discrimination.

 

[Ty Webb]

Which assumption is that you are referring? Is is the fact that women do get paid about 40% less, or minorities were more so discriminated against in the 60s and 70s? Are these not facts? Or was it the statement that said a "silver-platter handed to them" not impling that those who were hired do not deserve as such.

The 60's and the 70's were 30-40 years ago and are pretty much irrelevant. Most of us were in diapers then, or at least Disco Jeans and baseball sleeves.

The "here and now" is that women and minorities have an easier, not harder, time getting hired today, which isn't exactly fair, either.

Like someone else said, I don't care who gets hired, as long as they are competitively qualified and don't have a chip.

Over and Out.

 

[Trash8Mofo]

The 60's and the 70's were 30-40 years ago and are pretty much irrelevant. Most of us were in diapers then, or at least Disco Jeans and baseball sleeves.

The "here and now" is that women and minorities have an easier, not harder, time getting hired today, which isn't exactly fair, either.

Like someone else said, I don't care who gets hired, as long as they are competitively qualified and don't have a chip.

Over and Out.

I can see that you are one of those who believe that nothing happened in history before you existed. How about this for a different prespective: Your income determines where you live; where you live determines what kind of school and quality of education your kids would go to and recieve; which determines their job and income. Which, of course, determines where they would live and school and so on. You see the closed-loop relationship here? Then perhaps what happened 30 years ago affected by some misguided policies have some impact on the workforce today. I regret that you fail to see the importance of diversity and to realize the potential that women and minorities can bring to the workforce. Perhaps you should get that chip checked on your shoulder. BTW, women still get paid 40% less, that is "here and now".

 

[skykid]

My guess is most people who like to pretend there are a huge amount of pilots who got hired only because they are a certain color or sex have some kind of axe to grind, like a failed interview, and little or NO firsthand knowledge. I have flown with a lot of minorities and women and am still waiting to meet one of the presumably 1000s of incompetent ones.

 

[GogglesPisano]

I can see that you are one of those who believe that nothing happened in history before you existed. How about this for a different prespective: Your income determines where you live; where you live determines what kind of school and quality of education your kids would go to and recieve; which determines their job and income. Which, of course, determines where they would live and school and so on. You see the closed-loop relationship here? Then perhaps what happened 30 years ago affected by some misguided policies have some impact on the workforce today. I regret that you fail to see the importance of diversity and to realize the potential that women and minorities can bring to the workforce. Perhaps you should get that chip checked on your shoulder. BTW, women still get paid 40% less, that is "here and now".

Income. Not so much race or gender. Is it fair that a wealthy minority or female, who has benefited from the good sense of being born into money, should benefit further through affirmative action, to the detriment of a less-afluent though more qualified whiteboy?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Oh yeah, back on topic...

ALPA didn't put up a fight because there is nothing to fight with. The only option is to make UA management 1113 them and then invoke self help. Mutual assured destruction.

Unless pilots get the balls to risk their jobs, management has won the battle and the war. No one stood up for CAL and refused to fly former CAL routes. Same with EAL. AA pilots gleefully flew the LHR routes that Icahn stole from TWA and sold to AA. The PanAm pilots even got the shaft from their Delta "brothers" and so on.

What is happening to pilots at the "majors" today has its roots in the inactivity of ALPA and the greed of its members over the past 30 years.

We are all 'independant contractors' now. Every man for himself.TC

ALPA national has an interest in not taking pay cuts. Thier operating capitial comes significantly form UAL and DAL. When these pilots take pay cuts ALPA National has less operating money.... You know that 1.95% that you readily claim is your birth right to demand action from... you know the guys you didn't elect... cause you were too busy b1tching in the crewroom about how ALPA sucks all while there was an LEC meeting in progress.... Yeah those guys....

Get off the ingnorant attitudes that ALPA is in with managment.... ALPA could be so much more effective, but it always seems that pilots think ALPA is a service. It is resource for you to use to help yourself.... But when the industry gets destroyed like never before seen, pilots stand around and wonder who is going to do what for them.....

Guys it is too late for ALPA or anybody to anything for you.... The lack of education, volunteerism, unity and prepardness has hasten our demise....

It's every pilot for himself and it is going to get ugly.....

 

[Ty Webb]

I can see that you are one of those who believe that nothing happened in history before you existed. How about this for a different prespective . . .blah, blah, blah . . . .

No, I am one who sees the here and now, and I'll bet I have seen a lot more of both sides of the fence than you ever will. Everyone has their own cross to bear, and yet you think you're the only one. Stop trying to play the "victim".

Minorities who have the drive and the desire to succeed will do just that, and there is certainly more than enough opportunity for those who are willing to work hard and who are willing to conform to the constraints of the society that they presumably want to live in and benefit from.

And as for women getting paid less for doing the exact same job- not the women I know, but they don't sit around on their cans complaining, they put their shoulder into it. Maybe you should follow their example, instead of living in the past and looking for someone to blame.

 

[FLB717]

I don't care what color, sex or creed a person is. On that dark and stormy night with one engine on fire and the left Hyd system leaking, I want the best person up front keeping my family safe. And not the person who was hired based on some EOE criteria. This is saftey sensative job not a make work project for anyone.

 

[AA717driver]

Rez--Most ALPA members weren't in the crew rooms bitching over the past 30 years, they were saying "screw those guys from 'XXX airlines' they can't compete and they need to go out of business for the good of the industry".

I don't know where you were in the early '90's but that's what I saw from ALPA since I joined in '87 and heard from ALPA members who had been in Council 2 and 3 since the early 60's.

To be successful as a union you have to be willing to put something on the line. Hank Duffy failed. Randy Babbitt failed. Duane Woerthless is left to turn out the lights. You lead from the front. If Hank had called for a SOS over random drug testing, we were willing to go. If he had called for a SOS over security screening, we were willing to go. If they had called for a SOS when it was clear that Lorenzo was stealing EAL blind, we were willing to go. If Babbitt had called for a SOS when Icahn was stealing TWA blind, we would have been forever grateful to our brothers who put it on the line to support our cause. What we got was averted eyes in the terminal and snide remarks on the jumpseat...from our "brothers".

We were stopped because the leadership of ALPA did not have the wherewithall--the backbone, to be a union. ALPA is an association...with a really expensive magazine. USAir, UAL and whoever heads down the 1113 highway is reaping what they have sewn.TC

 

[BusterHymen]

This is being circulated as the new pay rates at UAL, after the TA is voted in.


New United TA payrates:

3-B-1-a Hourly Rates

Captains

B747-400 B777 B767/757 A320/319 B737-300

1yr 161.43 161.43 132.29 112.42 112.42

2yr 162.35 162.35 133.30 113.39 113.39

3yr 163.19 163.19 134.53 114.39 114.39

4yr 164.08 164.08 135.42 115.47 115.47

5yr 165.01 165.01 136.49 116.55 116.55

6yr 165.86 165.86 137.51 117.59 117.59

7yr 166.78 166.78 138.42 118.63 118.63

8yr 167.89 167.89 139.58 119.68 119.68

9yr 168.81 168.81 140.50 120.58 120.58

10yr 170.19 170.19 141.95 122.08 122.08

11yr 171.48 171.48 143.48 123.49 123.49

12yr 173.03 173.03 144.83 124.96 124.96

First Officers

B747-400 B777 B767/757 A320/319 B737-300

1yr 29.72 29.72 29.72 29.72 29.72

2yr 67.70 67.70 55.58 47.28 47.28

3yr 97.91 97.91 80.61 68.64 68.64

4yr 103.54 103.54 85.45 72.86 72.86

5yr 105.69 105.69 87.42 74.66 74.66

6yr 108.13 108.13 89.65 76.67 76.67

7yr 110.65 110.65 91.84 78.71 78.71

8yr 113.32 113.32 94.22 80.78 80.78

9yr 114.28 114.28 95.12 81.64 81.64

10yr 115.64 115.64 96.46 82.95 82.95

11yr 116.95 116.95 97.86 84.21 84.21

12yr 118.18 118.18 98.92 85.35 85.35