Trans oceanic navigation

pdhuh

New member
Joined
Dec 8, 2001
Posts
2
Total Time
100
Can anybody tell me how airlines navigate on trans oceanic flight. GPS, inertial systems or what else. VOR?
 

Deltoid

Active member
Joined
Dec 1, 2001
Posts
33
Total Time
Lots
Howdy,

The 757-200 Model I have been flying across the North Atlantic usues 3 IRS's (Inertial reference systems), Plus two GPS receivers, VOR DME's when available & lastly the FMC computed position.

Joe
 

HAL

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
733
Total Time
10000+
We us dual GPS units in our DC-10's. I haven't been through our 767 transition yet, but I believe they use dual INS's, updated with GPS and VOR information.
 

Deltoid

Active member
Joined
Dec 1, 2001
Posts
33
Total Time
Lots
The 767 is essentially the same as the 757. The newer aircraft from the factory are equiped with 3 IRS 2 GPS for updates & VOR DME same as the 757. The older aircraft had only the 3 IRS units and VOR DME updating.

Joe
 

TriStar_drvr

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Posts
427
Total Time
12000+
The L1011s that ATA flies either have dual GPS or triple INS. There are no VORs in the middle of the ocean, but the INS units use VOR signals when available to update their position. I was fortunate that the VLF Omega units were replaced with GPS before I got on the airplane.
 

TurboS7

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
2,261
Total Time
19,210
737-800

The 737's we use has two dual IRS's , laser gyro's, updated by dual GPS, VOR/DME. They can go 2.0 hours without anyupdating with zero drift, they can go 6.0 and remain within the required RNP without any updating. Pretty amazing stuff.
The 727 has two Universal GPS unity which seem to do a pretty good job.
 

banned username 2

Banned User
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
3,254
In the Falcon 900EX we use triple IRS's (Laser Gyros), triple GPS's tied into triple FMS's (NZ2000's) for navigation.

For Communication over the ocean we have dual HF Radios, plus SAT-AFIS and SAT-Comm...
 

HAL

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
733
Total Time
10000+
All that makes our DC-10 seem kind of antiquated! We also have to remember to keep hampster feed on hand for all flights or our GPS screens go dark when they stop their treadmills. ;)
 

TurboS7

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
2,261
Total Time
19,210
We still use HF's our company says anytype of sat com or ACARS is too costly. So I guess that we are stuck with smoke signals for a while.
 

SentryIP

Better lucky than good!
Joined
Dec 9, 2001
Posts
223
Total Time
10000+
B-707

On the B-707 I used to fly when I as stationed in Germany, we used two INS's (Inertial Navigation Systems) with a handheld GPS backup for the tie-breaker vote. I think the rules are a little more strict now, but we never got lost. :D
Now, we have two GINS (GPS-aided Inertial Navigation Systems) and a navigator. Regardless, I always take my handheld Garmin GPS as a last resort. Take care.
 

TurboS7

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
2,261
Total Time
19,210
I have an ETOPS check flight this weekend to KEF. Besides all the normal stuff in the flight ops manual etc, etc, /// Anyone have any good info that I can spoof the checkairman with???
 

Little Bubba

Current title:
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
151
Total Time
9100+
Not sure what you are looking for. ETOPS is mainly a planning exercise. Maybe look at the MEL to see what could prevent a dispatch under ETOPS. When airborne, just keep a close eye on the WX at the selected airports, if WX goes below minima before you enter the ETOPS zone, then do not enter. Just try to find a new suitable airport and amend routing. If it goes below when you are already in the zone, then just continue as normal.

Good Luck
 

Smoove Ride

Love Man
Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Posts
55
Total Time
<enuff
ETOPS = Engines Turn or People Swim!..... :D
 

pilotyip

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
13,629
Total Time
14000
In the old days

We crossed the Atlantic in the 60's using DR, Cel Nav and Loran "A" (WWII stuff), routinely came within 10-15 miles of our entry points. At 360 KTs thats is only 2-3 minutes off course. The only time we every got in troulbe is when the navigator tried to use our new INS-42, it was a stand alone unit, one of the first intertials made by the Singer Sewing Machine company. Boy we really got lost.
 

TurboS7

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
2,261
Total Time
19,210
Finished my ETOPS check. I guess our fleet manager wants all circles drawn with a quarter then the info inside the quarters on the plot chart. Other than trying to get a quarter through security it was no big deal. I will hopefully go the Vietnam next month, that would be a nice start.
 

Little Bubba

Current title:
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
151
Total Time
9100+
Good luck with Vietnam,

ATC pretty good, WX this time of the year shouldn't be a problem, watch out for the the low transition level (FL60, I think). Saigon: Landing 25R(ILS), or 07L (VOR/DME), expect T3 ARR and T3 DEP from/to the east. Unless you are going on vacation, then forget the whole thing....
 
Last edited:

TurboS7

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
2,261
Total Time
19,210
No vacation I just biting my nails hoping that I get the trip. Thanks for the info.
 
Top