To ALL UNITED pilots courtesy of ALL UAX carriers and their pilots

[MountainFreak]

The reaction should go something like this,

"Great, my MEC tried to get me super priority on the UAX jumpseat and messed it up! It worked for TSA and GOJets but now the other UAX pilots are mad because I'm higher on the list than their own pilots on their own aircraft when I jumpseat! AND those UAX carriers have been getting the runaround from my company and my MEC for over a year now with some mumbo jumbo about no money to change the computer to fix it. Seems like there was enough money and motivation to get this "change" to the screwed up situation were in now.

I didn't know my MEC was trying to get super priority on the UAX carriers and would definatily support their claim that the computer needs to be fixed.

It sucks they finally had to resort to threats to get this resolved but being a union member I can understand how it takes a strong message to get the point accross. It sure worked for us in the summer of 2000."

Or some variation of this.

Look, I'm not your enemy and I actually see your point. But you aren't accounting for human nature.
What would you do in this situation:

"You step in line for tickets to a movie. Unbeknownst to you, you cut off another patron, and you get the last ticket to the now sold-out show. The other patron could politely inform you of what happened, and politely ask you for his rightful ticket (after paying of course). Instead, the patron yells at you and threatens to slash your tires so you can't get home.

Do you
A) Say you are so sorry, give him the ticket, and say thank you for not slashing my tires ? or

B) Kick his &*&"

I'm pretty sure I know what you, me, and anybody else would do.

 

[ArcticFlier]

Or put things aside for the time being, contact your MEC and get this fixed..........................

FIN

 

[Flyerdan]

This question was posed to our JSC on our SAPA forum. I guess all the UAX Captains better know the right answer come August 1st. I would hate to see anyone put their certificate on the line because of their position on this issue.

"Would there be an "official" suspension or termination of the jumpseat agreement with United? Because it seems to me that if there is no agreement in place, the Captain could not authorize the jumpseater, in the same way that he could not authorize use of the jumpseat for any other pilot whose airline does not have an agreement with us. Since flight deck access is covered in the FARs, I'd hate to see someone use discretion but in fact violate a reg."

 

[waveflyer]

Maybe, maybe not. I doubt we will get it back, but we will sure as heck try.
Just to clarify though. We (as in the membership) were never given the opportunity to vote on giving or keeping the 70 jseat jets. That came about through a secret side-letter negotiated by our then MEC chair. One of his many mistakes. And our mistake for voting him in. But, the membership was adamantly against giving away the 70 seaters at the time.

So nobody anywhere had a vote-- all backroom doors-- meanwhile the super senior in this industry got to enjoy age 60 retirements and the fact that they got hired on at their "major" carrier flying the older version of an RJ-- why did you think the younger generation was going to keep idolizing you when you've lost all perspective of what got you those contracts back in the day-- your generation is the problem-- so you STOP. I'm glad the express guys are growing up and acting like MEN. Isn't that what you've been asking them to do every time you blamed them for flying at those wages- even though you were the one's who sold them out.

 

[trachyte11]

While giving a pre departure brief to me at the start of a trip years ago, a wise Captain told me, "It's not who's right, it's what's right."

Now I believe this guy was saying that if a problem comes up, let's fix it, not waste time letting egos get in the way or pointing fingers.

So fix the F-ing problem. Nobody cares if your feelings were hurt because nobody said "pretty please". Somebody knew this was a problem. It might not have been you but SOMEBODY did.

You think that if the roles were reversed and it was you who got bumped off of your own metal that YOU wouldn't want some quick resolution?

Get off of the ego trip fellas. This isn't a mainline/express problem. It's a problem.

It's not WHO'S right, it's WHAT's right.

Oh, and thanks for reinforcing the notion that leaving the airlines was the best career move I ever made. Honestly, do you think such arrogance and hubris will do you well when you're looking for a new job next year?

The most logical post of the whole thread.

 

[Weasil]

Posted on APC.com (emphasis not added by me)

Letter from MEC Jumpseat Committee, July 8, 2008

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

July 8, 2008

To: United Airlines Pilots

From: UALMEC Jumpseat Committee

Re: Our response to the letter from the “UAX Pilots Association”—Denial of Express Jumpseats to UAL pilots

The UALMEC Jumpseat Committee would like to address the situation regarding the impending denial of jumpseats to United pilots by our United Express (UAX) partners. For those of you who commute on UAX flights, you already have or will soon be receiving the following letter from a UAX captain when you request a jumpseat.

( DELETED LETTER FROM UAX)

This letter is endorsed by all of the UAX carriers with the exception of TransStates Airlines, an ALPA affiliated carrier. Mesa Air Group, an ALPA carrier has endorsed this letter.

To summarize the intent of this letter, the jumpseat is being used as a bargaining chip and a ransom in order to get their issues resolved. The policy of ALPA National is to not use the jumpseat as a bargaining tool or for political purposes. An ad hoc jumpseat group named Hitcharide, which monitors and addresses jumpseat issues for the US airline industry, has also adopted the ALPA policy. All of these UAX members and the UAL Jumpseat Committee are members of this group.

In a separate letter addressed to the MEC, the UAX members identify specific computer software issues that are affecting their ability to obtain proper jumpseat access on their airplanes in addition to being improperly charged for cabin jumpseats. Your Jumpseat Committee is in agreement that there are problems associated with these programs. These UAX members are under the assumption that the solutions to these problems are a mere simple fix and any money that would be required to fix the problems is supposed to be the responsibility of United. It has been conveyed to these members that there are no simple fixes to these problems regardless of any alleged funding issues.

I would like to take a few moments to brief you on the history of this group. The MEC Jumpseat Committee and UA flight ops have invested much time and effort to address the problems at UAX.

Starting in November, 2006, we had invited all of the UAX carrier’s jumpseat chairpersons to sit down with us and identify the problems. Through a series of face to face meetings and telephone conferences, we identified some problem areas regarding jumpseating on UAX: First, Apollo computer software (which runs all jumpseat programs for UA and UAX) is antiquated. The system cannot separate the UAX employees into their own separate groups and unfortunately considers them as offline pilots even when trying to get a jumpseat on their own company aircraft.

Second, inadequate UAX CSR training, along with a high turnover rate of agent staff. Third, lack of Captain’s authority.

Referencing the software system, it has been determined that in order to bring the system up to date so it can sort the employees properly would require major system upgrades, extra manpower assignments and increased funding. There also were requests to investigate the feasibility of some quick fixes to these issues. It was conveyed to the group that it would be investigated, but with no guarantees. It was also made clear to them that there would be obstacles, limitations and almost no financial support. At one point in one of the meetings members of the group were asked if they would petition their managements for money to defray the costs of software upgrades. Not one member offered to ask their management for some monetary assistance.

Two positive solutions were created from these meetings. One being the development of SOPs that would efficiently process and board a jumpseater. The other was created to address the issue of a UAX pilot not being able to get on his own company jumpseat. With input from the MEC Jumpseat Committee, a lesson plan for agents that manage UAX flights was created and gives guidance to the agent in the event of a priority conflict to direct all jumpseaters down to the Captain for conflict resolution. This is an interim fix, which addresses Captain’s authority and gets pilots on their jumpseats. I have been informed by the UAX manager of United that since the implementation of this lesson plan, the problems with UAX pilots “not getting on their own metal” have diminished. They have not been eliminated; but it is a positive step and will diminish over time. If you will recall, back in 2006 we took effective steps to reduce our own internal jumpseat problems. They were not cleared up immediately, but they diminished at a steady rate.

The UAX members make a statement to you in their letter and insist that one simple fix can be made by a simple software change that would recognize a UAX flight number and match it to the employees of that carrier. They also accuse United of not wanting to fix the problem because it would not generate revenue for them. The recognition of flight numbers was discussed as a POSSIBLE “quick fix.” It also was conveyed to them that we would investigate this possibility, but we would not make any guarantees. The accusation of United not wanting to fix the problem due to no revenue generation is totally unfounded. It is our opinion these UAX members believe that if United does not fix the problem, it will force these UAX pilots to be charged for a UAX first class seat, should it be the only one vacant. We do not recall this topic being presented for discussion.

Their letter, which amounts to nothing more than a blatant threat to our pilots, is being taken very seriously by the MEC, United Flight ops and United management. Flight ops and management are corresponding with their UAX counterparts and confronting them with their letters. It is our belief that the endorsers of this letter did not consult with their senior managements prior to distributing them.

So, what now?

The UALMEC Jumpseat Committee, United Flight ops and the UAX manager from United are going to convene for a telephone conference on Thursday, July 10, 2008. We will advise these UAX members ONE LAST TIME of the difficulties and limitations associated with resolving these issues. We will also put to rest their beliefs that there are quick solutions as well. At the end of this meeting your jumpseat committee will advise these members that they will have one week from July 10th to rescind their decision to deny jumpseats to United pilots. We will also demand they notify the MEC in writing. If at the end of that week they have not reversed their decision, we will IMMEDIATELY do all within our power to prevent them from obtaining jumpseats on United flights. We will request management to instruct our agents to not process them for a jumpseat or issue them an OMC card. Ultimately, the Captain has final authority on access to his or her jumpseat. Your MEC Officers have unanimously endorsed this course of action.
Until the period in time arrives to where we take our course of action, I am expecting the UAX members to honor their reciprocal agreements and not deny United pilots a jumpseat . However, if you encounter a situation in which you feel that you are being denied this for an illegitimate reason, we request that you file a JSAP report. You can access this report by going to the UALMEC Website: www.ualmec.org. After signing into the members section, click the Jumpseat Committee tab on the left hand side of the main page. When you get to our committee page, look for the JSAP report tab halfway down the page. If you are not able to access the JSAP report, please contact one of the members of the MEC Jumpseat Committee using the email addresses listed below.

The UALMEC Jumpseat Committee will correspond to you at the appropriate time, if not sooner.

Fraternally,

Bob Spadea
Chairman, United MEC Jumpseat Committee

Frank Palombi
Vice Chairman, United MEC Jumpseat Committee

 

[PCL_128]

Trading one deadline and ultimatum for another. Don't pick a fight that you can't win, UAXers.

 

[Mike man]

we will IMMEDIATELY do all within our power to prevent them from obtaining jumpseats on United flights.

I thought he policy of ALPA National is to not use the jumpseat as a bargaining tool or for political purposes...but UAL is using it now? I have a seeking suspicion that more mainline folks use express jumpseats than vice versa.

 

[Poahi]

I thought he policy of ALPA National is to not use the jumpseat as a bargaining tool or for political purposes..

They have the right to defend themselves and this action is totally predictable. What wasn't predictable is that the UAX MEC's didn't take this issue to the membership or even to their own status reps. Shame shame shame. This is not the way to handle it guys.

How about this. Since both UAL's computers and gate agents aren't capable of handling the daunting complexity of the jumpseat sorting process, why not instruct them to pass along all jumpseat requests to the Captain and let the Captain sort them out? It might take a few extra minutes and trigger an occasional delay, but it's revenue neutral. You know that's how it's going to go down anyway....

 

[Davi8r]

In the same letter:

"We will also put to rest their beliefs that there are quick solutions as well".

and ...

"we will IMMEDIATELY do all within our power to prevent them from obtaining jumpseats on United flights."

So, United's MEC will IMMEDIATELY do everything in its power, to perpetuate a problem that has gone on for at least two years, but has no quick (or other) solutions for fixing it?

Great job, guys!