The definition of a X-C?

throttlejockey

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I am currently undertaking the painful task of converting all my logbooks from paper to computer.

Back when I started flying, the definition of a X-C was any point to point flight when the straightline distance exceeded 50 nm.

During the past 15 years, that definition changed to 25 nm, then to any flight between two different airports. (Maybe it changed due to differing requirements for each rating?)

Now as I start to convert all this time, I am a bit confused over what flights are now X-C and what flights are not. I have all my ratings and I have more than enough X-C time to satisfy any current requirements, from an FAR standpoint.

However, as I move closer to the day that I become marketable to a National or Major, I am now mostly concerned with the proper logging of the flight time in their eyes, not just from the regulators point of view.

How would you go about relogging your flight time if you were undertaking this task?

Thanks,

throttlejockey
 

maverick_fp00

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Allright, it's to my understanding that a x-c is any trip between 2 airports regardless of how far apart they are. As far as your ATP goes I believe you need 500hrs x-c. Those 500hrs have to be more than 50nm away from the departing airport.

If I'm wrong, somebody please let me know, but I think I'm right on this one.

Hope I helped!
 

Rvrrat

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X-C time

61.1a3

Basicly the 25nm figure refers to rotorcraft x-c while gaining experience to meet requirements for a certificate; it also refers to the maximum distance student pilots can fly away from their base prior to being given x-c training.
The 50nm figure is the minimum distance that can count as an x-c while gaining time to meet requirements for a certificate-aircraft catagory.
Otherwise it is simply qualified by "A: Conducted by a person who holds a pilot certificate; B: Conducted in an aircraft; C: Includes a landing at a point other than the point of departure; and D: involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point."
Once you have your certificates, it's simply point to point, no minimum distance.

Best Regards,
Rvr
 

throttlejockey

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Thanks guys. It looks like I will have to re-state some of my time since I never logged any of my "shorter" cross-countries.

throttlejockey
 

ifly4food

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Here's the deal:
For PT 135 PIC minumums, you can use ANY XC time, regardless of distance. For PT 61 ATP minimums the listed XC time must be greater than 50NM.
By FAR definition, XC time is flying between two airports with a landing at both. Or it is overflying an airport 25 miles from your origination airport (without landing)

I keep two columns in my logbook. One for XC (as seen above) and one for XC greater than 50NM only.
 

bobbysamd

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X-C Time

The over-50-nm cross-countries are the ones you must have to count for your Commercial certification. After you earn your Commercial certification, any flight from Airport "A" to Airport "B" will count as cross-country. Therefore, you can count these cross-countries toward the ATP x-c time requirement.

Some people feel that something like a ferry flight across town that amounts to .2 or .3 counted as cross-country looks cheesy and could connote padding. It's all valid and legal per the FARs. The cheesy and padding aspects are things you have to decide for yourself.
 

TurboS7

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X-Country time is when you takeoff and airport A and arrive at airport B. The 50 mile deal is only when specified for certification, which was only for the PVT I believe.
 

maverick_fp00

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I only log under x-c if the airport I go to is more than 50nm away.
 

Bluto

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Bobbysamd,
Sorry, I have to disagree with you.

14CFR 61.1 (b)(3)(iv)
For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for an airline transport pilot certificate (except with a rotorcraft category rating), time acquired during a flight-
(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft
(B) That is more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of
departure; and
(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic
navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems.

Cross country towards your ATP does not have to include a landing at a point other than departure. It only has to meet the requirements above. Meaning, you have to navigate to a point
> 50 NM from your original point of departure, not necessarily land there.

To log cross-country for part 135 considerations, or any other time when not pursuing a private, commercial, instrument, or recreational certificate, log cross-country any time you take off one place, and land at another. To clarify, you can log cross-country this way all the time, you just have to differentiate between the >50 NM cross-countries when you are working towards a certificate.
 

KlingonLRDRVR

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Throttlejocky,

Since I see you already have your ATP I would leave a sleeping dog alone. Just put the time in your computor log the same as it is in the written log. Times match, no harm no foul and no questions asked why your written log times don't match your computor log during an interview. An interview is the wrong place to explain away such discrepancy as they may question what time if any is correct in your log. Just my .02 and you got more than you paid for, Good Luck.

KlingonLRDRVR
 

bobbysamd

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ATP X-C Time

This requirement must have changed since I got my ATP in 1989.

Thanks for the correction, Bluto.
 

dondk

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my .02 into the pile...

The reason for the change from landing at two airports greater than 50 nm to the newer regulation of navigating to a point
50 NM from your original point of departure, was due in part to the gulf war. All of our pilots who flew sorties never landed, although they had several hundred miles between points. The FAA after pressure from other entities considered the ruling and made the now current adjustment. From a military point of view it sounds fair, these guys do regular sorties and could not log any of it towards thier ATP's. Now they can....
 

bobbysamd

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X-C requirements

Thanks, dondk. Interesting clarification. I remember flying long practices sorties in CAP of more than 50 nm from the airport. It was a pity that I couldn't count the time as cross-country because we didn't land.
 

throttlejockey

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KlingonLRDRVR,

I appreciate the advice on not changing what is in the logbook. However, it is interesting to note that after only the first 250 hours of converting to the computerized format, I am already 2 hours off!

At that rate, I should be 20 hours off by the time I am done!

The purpose behind converting over to the computerized format was that I was not happy with the quality of my own record keeping nor was I sure of its accuracy. In addition, I have been told that many airlines like to see computerized logbooks.

In any case, I am going to continue to check for errors and discrepancies as I go along and if I find that I did not log flight times properly (I.E. X-C Time that is not logged) I will go ahead and restate it for the purposes of accuracy).

Thanks,

throttlejockey
 
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