SAPA "Negotiations" Update

[Nevets]

Really? Their top Captains took around a 40% cut and the bottom 2/3 will be eventually dumped.


Ya, thank god they had ALPA?

The judge denied the management's first attempt. So, yes, it would have been worse. Not to mention that the company would've had just imposed something worse than what they proposed to the judge since they wouldn't have needed a judge's permission if they were non-union.

What is it you guys don't understand about that? Or are you just blinded by hatred?

 

[nerjdriver]

I never said that this mess at XJT was better. What I said is that our 401k matching is better and that we have the same performance plus bonus (just that our performance sucks). Check your contract, section 25, page 154. As for overall compensation, you have to calculate it as total compensation divided by total block hours flown for a true comparison.

I have it Nevets. Ever hear of profit sharing? Additionally im aware, after being at this for a while, how to calculate compensation. SKYW pilots can also put their match into a ROTH (According to my accountant who is a skyw pilot), not just a 401k, again, big bonus there. Ill take the 11% match rumored being offered over there over our match and measly 2%. In fact, Ill take their health insurance with that 11%. Ill also take being a reserve CA and being allowed to pick up trips to credit much higher than 75 hours. You see they do have a better deal than us, we're just so brainwashed some of us believe we are the "master race". FYI a reserve CA over there can hit 100K fairly easily if theyre willing to work, not so here. Ill take their trip and duty rig too, unlike our big bad 2hr DPM. Theres plenty we have that's good, but at the end of the day they make more. We should be demanding SKYW plus $1, not the other way around. That little stunt pulled about getting a 70 seat rate so we could bid on flying? What a joke, guess where all the flying went?

 

[Nevets]

I have it Nevets. Ever hear of profit sharing? Additionally im aware, after being at this for a while, how to calculate compensation. SKYW pilots can also put their match into a ROTH (According to my accountant who is a skyw pilot), not just a 401k, again, big bonus there. Ill take the 11% match rumored being offered over there over our match and measly 2%. In fact, Ill take their health insurance with that 11%. Ill also take being a reserve CA and being allowed to pick up trips to credit much higher than 75 hours. You see they do have a better deal than us, we're just so brainwashed some of us believe we are the "master race". FYI a reserve CA over there can hit 100K fairly easily if theyre willing to work, not so here. Ill take their trip and duty rig too, unlike our big bad 2hr DPM. Theres plenty we have that's good, but at the end of the day they make more. We should be demanding SKYW plus $1, not the other way around. That little stunt pulled about getting a 70 seat rate so we could bid on flying? What a joke, guess where all the flying went?

Yes, we have a profit sharing plan as well that is exactly like Skywest's (except that we don't make a profit).

Are you also aware that we've been able to put our money in a Roth 401k ever since their inception, not just the regular 401k but in addition to it.

Are you also aware that we also get a higher match than Skywest and that in addition to the higher match we also get another contribution as well, up to 12% for the most senior. And that is not a rumor. It's a fact!

And are you aware that our reserves can also pick up during red flag and can can pick up during the APW?

And are you aware that we have a contractual cap of 25% on our health insurance premiums? Skywest doesn't have that and they are also not pushing us into consumer driven health plans either.

As for their duty rigs (they don't have a trip rig), I've been calculating the difference it would have made to me since they bought us and so far it would only have been a few hours total.

I've seen the numbers and I've heard it from JA himself. When counting total compensation, wages, 401k matching, retirement contributions, health benefits (all of which are better than Skywest), and productivity (or lack there of), ours is higher. And if you actually calculate that total compensation by block hours flown, you will have a true comparison of compensation and work rules.

And lastly, I do agree that the arbitrators decision on the large RJ rates are a joke. And I would happily take one dollar more than Skywest if we kept our current work rules, not theirs.

 

[Flyer1015]

The judge denied the management's first attempt. So, yes, it would have been worse. Not to mention that the company would've had just imposed something worse than what they proposed to the judge since they wouldn't have needed a judge's permission if they were non-union.

What is it you guys don't understand about that? Or are you just blinded by hatred?

The big non-union regional is SkyWest and they are the highest paying regional airline today for pilots.

 

[nerjdriver]

Yes, we have a profit sharing plan as well that is exactly like Skywest's (except that we don't make a profit).

Are you also aware that we've been able to put our money in a Roth 401k ever since their inception, not just the regular 401k but in addition to it.

Are you also aware that we also get a higher match than Skywest and that in addition to the higher match we also get another contribution as well, up to 12% for the most senior. And that is not a rumor. It's a fact!

And are you aware that our reserves can also pick up during red flag and can can pick up during the APW?

And are you aware that we have a contractual cap of 25% on our health insurance premiums? Skywest doesn't have that and they are also not pushing us into consumer driven health plans either.

As for their duty rigs (they don't have a trip rig), I've been calculating the difference it would have made to me since they bought us and so far it would only have been a few hours total.

I've seen the numbers and I've heard it from JA himself. When counting total compensation, wages, 401k matching, retirement contributions, health benefits (all of which are better than Skywest), and productivity (or lack there of), ours is higher. And if you actually calculate that total compensation by block hours flown, you will have a true comparison of compensation and work rules.

And lastly, I do agree that the arbitrators decision on the large RJ rates are a joke. And I would happily take one dollar more than Skywest if we kept our current work rules, not theirs.

WOW just wow. Do you do the stip show at the MEC office Nevets? Keep telling yourself all these little things.

 

[Nevets]

The big non-union regional is SkyWest and they are the highest paying regional airline today for pilots.

Actually, that is not true. Heard it from JA's mouth himself. And I've seen the actual numbers.

WOW just wow. Do you do the stip show at the MEC office Nevets? Keep telling yourself all these little things.

What did I say that wasn't true? Can you point exactly where I was wrong? I gave you section and page number of our contract that showed where you were wrong about our 401k.

 

[IBNAV8R]

And if you actually calculate that total compensation by block hours flown, you will have a true comparison of compensation and work rules.

I'm getting deja vu. Last time NEVETS made this claim, I got nothing back but crickets. You got some pretty big stones trying to bring it up again while claiming SkyWest pilots are "coat-tailing."

 

[IBNAV8R]

$133/block hour

 

[Fishpaw]

The problem with this debate is how everyone chooses to compare average compensation.

Nevet's says JA told the XJT Mec we have a higher average compensation per pilot and would have to take large cuts if they purchased us (something I also was told by another Union rep that was in the meeting). So we have to assume then that JA is telling the truth about this average.

Nerjdriver's experience as a reserve CA at XJT is not matching up with what he hears from his SKW buddies so he feels the average compensation is much better at SKW. This is a different way to look at average compensation because he is only looking at if he were a reserve CA at SKW, not a lineholder.

Either way you look at it (individual basis, or pilot group as a whole) hopefully we can all work together to get the compensation we deserve.

Fwiw, my compensation in 2012 was about $200/blk hr when accounting for pay, per diem, perf bonus, 401k match (8yr CA, XJT).

 

[Nevets]

I'm getting deja vu. Last time NEVETS made this claim, I got nothing back but crickets. You got some pretty big stones trying to bring it up again while claiming SkyWest pilots are "coat-tailing."

I don't recall that. I must have missed your reply. But Skywest pilots are coat tailing. Your welcome for known crewmember.

The problem with this debate is how everyone chooses to compare average compensation.

Nevet's says JA told the XJT Mec we have a higher average compensation per pilot and would have to take large cuts if they purchased us (something I also was told by another Union rep that was in the meeting). So we have to assume then that JA is telling the truth about this average.

Nerjdriver's experience as a reserve CA at XJT is not matching up with what he hears from his SKW buddies so he feels the average compensation is much better at SKW. This is a different way to look at average compensation because he is only looking at if he were a reserve CA at SKW, not a lineholder.

Either way you look at it (individual basis, or pilot group as a whole) hopefully we can all work together to get the compensation we deserve.

Fwiw, my compensation in 2012 was about $200/blk hr when accounting for pay, per diem, perf bonus, 401k match (8yr CA, XJT).

He said that we would require a 16% concession to bring us to parity with the Skywest average (entire pilot group) total compensation. He even broke it down into 4 specific categories (4% for each) they were looking at: pay rates, B fund, PBS, and other work rules yet to be determined (my guess was health benefits). ASA only needed 4% to at parity with Skywest but they were getting that with the eventual PBS implementation. This would have had all three pilot groups having the same average total compensation. He had a plan (still does) of putting in 3 separate bids for any and all RFPs. He said all this.

By the way, don't forget your health benefits in your total compensation. Whatever premiums you pay, that is only 25% of the total. The company pays for the other 75% on our behalf as part of our compensation.