Reporters smuggle knives onto 14 flights

[Typhoon1244]

If the pilots don't care about upholding airport security and the future of air travel...why should I?

I completely understand your frustration. The fact of the matter is that most--if not all--of us do care about airport security.

But what you're asking us to uphold is not airport security. These reporters proved to us this week that "airport security" doesn't exist in this nation. Aren't you outraged that screeners are out there confiscating G.I. Joe accessories while guys are walking into the airport with box cutters?

You folks in the T.S.A. are in a really rough spot. You have to cope with (1) the widespread belief among Americans that their government is incapable of handling airport security, and (2) the truly horrifying reputation you've been given by the privately-contracted screeners you replaced, which is probably a more significant handicap than the former.

The flying public and the flight crew community assumes you are incompetent. The T.S.A. is going to have to work very hard to prove them wrong...and they won't do it by continuing the policies and procedures of the past, confiscating inch-long toy guns, nail clippers, and flashlights.

As I've said, I haven't been too many places where the T.S.A. was in full authority, so I'm reserving judgement. Because of your education and experience, I place a lot of faith in you and your compadres, RichardFitzwell.

Try and remember how you felt the first time you saw a Boeing 767 cruising gracefully into the side of a hundred-story building in Manhattan.

Then imagine a swarthy middle easterner with a paper badge forcing a line pilot to remove his shoes and belt in front of his passengers.

The system just might start improving soon...but don't ask us not to be angry about the thousands of tiny humiliations and outrages we've experienced.

 

[Flydaplane]

Hey Dep676 lay off Fitzwell at least he's trying to make a difference. What have you done besides bitch and moan to the wrong people?

I am also a furloughed pilot working for TSA and there are a lot of positive changes that have gone into effect that you will probably never see. That said, even after all the airports have been federalized (and remember there are few that have) there will still be many cases where things get through the checkpoint. Its the human error factor. No one is perfect. Have you ever had to do an approach over, or gotten to high or low on the glideslope? That is an error on your part, and while you try your hardest, you will never be perfect.
I can guarantee that if you were working at the checkpoint 8 hours a day, and I wanted to, I could get things past you. TSA confiscates hundreds of thousands of knives, scissors, boxcutters every month.

Its fun to bash screeners and say "alpa should put a stop to this". What would alpa do? Huh? What would the almighty pilots union do? Walk out? Until what? Screening gets better or just until it no longer bothers the pilots? Well, thats what we're trying to do. Make screening better. It will never be perfect, unless you want everyone hand searched and 4 hour waits at the checkpoint and you will constantly read horror stories in the usatoday (I remember when commuter airlines were favorite stories).

We all hate to be inconvienenced, especially when we all know that pilots are not a serious risk. That said, listen to YOUR ALPA leaders and don't make a fuss at the screening checkpoint. Do what your told to do and be on your way. ALPA and TSA are working on the biometric ID card, but TSA has a lot more pressing concerns right now, like trying to get the public back flying and keeping the process convienent so we can all go back to work.

Most screeners try to avoid flightcrew like the plague. We have a reputation of being the rudest passengers that they have to deal with. Much to your disbelief, the last thing they want to do is screen a pilot (pilots treat them the worst). Most (but not all) of the new screeners will be better educated, more polite, and have better communication skills, but they will never be perfect and while the standards in the past have been low, we should all expect to see some improvement.

Watch you bags and ID badges always, many have been stolen and the threat is still high. I you have a jumpseater, feel free to profile on your own (since the federal govt. can't right now). Ask for additional ID, medical, pilot certificate, question the jumpseater to make sure he's supposed to be there. If you are still being flagged for screening at the boarding gate, it's the air carriers fault, many flag non-revs instead of bothering paying customers.

Go ahead and flame away I know I'm an easy target because of who I work for.....just ask yourself how you've made a difference first? Keep writing congress, I'm 100% in favor of profiling, but it won't happen without a public outcry.

Fitzwell, wherever you work, good luck and thanks for trying to make a difference.

 

[ifly4food]

Its fun to bash screeners and say "alpa should put a stop to this". What would alpa do? Huh? What would the almighty pilots union do? Walk out? Until what? Screening gets better or just until it no longer bothers the pilots?

Are we a little bitter toward the pilot community abd ALPA? More on that later.

We all hate to be inconvienenced, especially when we all know that pilots are not a serious risk. That said, listen to YOUR ALPA leaders and don't make a fuss at the screening checkpoint. Do what your told to do and be on your way. ALPA and TSA are working on the biometric ID card, but TSA has a lot more pressing concerns right now, like trying to get the public back flying and keeping the process convienent so we can all go back to work.

When government officials make heavy handed statements like "do what you're told", we've taken one step closer to becoming a dictatorship. I hope your attitude is not truly representative of the TSA.

Most screeners try to avoid flightcrew like the plague. We have a reputation of being the rudest passengers that they have to deal with. Much to your disbelief, the last thing they want to do is screen a pilot (pilots treat them the worst).

Awful bold statement from someone who is a furloughed pilot. You sound a little bitter toward pilots who are still working, and also your union. Again, I hope your attitude isn't the standard at the TSA. I should think your superiors wouldn't approve of statements like this.

Go ahead and flame away I know I'm an easy target because of who I work for.....just ask yourself how you've made a difference first? Keep writing congress, I'm 100% in favor of profiling, but it won't happen without a public outcry.

Not flaming you, just pointing out an apparent bias.
Interesting you ask for a public outcry in the same diatribe in which you tell us to just "do as we're told". Which one is it now?

 

[Timebuilder]

I find this a little bit curious:

Most screeners try to avoid flightcrew like the plague. We have a reputation of being the rudest passengers that they have to deal with. Much to your disbelief, the last thing they want to do is screen a pilot (pilots treat them the worst).

Now, why might that be true? As I pass through your security checkpoint, I am the only one who has to take off his shoes. I can't have a nail clipper and a host of small items which are handy for a pilot.

Once I reach the gate, off come the shoes once again. Finally judged to be okay, I can board the aircraft.

As a furloughed pilot you know that we are people who like things to be logical, and make sense. If pilots are rude in the face of nonsense, you cannot possibly be surprised.

 

[slide33]

It'd be nice if terrorists were stupid. Unfortunately they're intelligent extremists which makes them very dangerous.

Increasing airport security is a must. It is very inadequate. But I doubt it very much the next terrorist attack will be a re-play. It's going to be something different, probably where we aren't looking.

Taking a loaded gun onto an aircraft is a bad, bad, bad idea. I know a lot of you ex-military guys are familiar with the M-9 and all that - but across the board this is a terrible idea. Just look at how many police officers are killed with their own weapon each year. 21% of officers killed with a handgun are shot with their own service weapon, and others were killed with a handgun taken from a fellow officer. And they are much better trained with a weapon than 99.9% of any pilots out there.

Make the cockpit inaccessible during flight - and if a hijack is attempted - LAND THE AIRPLANE! Then try to be John Wayne.

 

[RichardFitzwell]

Here's a little more information this report failed to point out. Of the 11 airports tested, NONE of them are 100% TSA. Here's the break down of Federal employees at the airports tested (as of September 4th)...

Las Vegas - NONE of the airport is TSA
Newark - Only terminal A
Boston - Only part of Terminal C
Washington Dullas - NONE
Portland - NONE
LaGuardia - Only A 1-2 terminals
Kennedy - Only terminals 6, 7 & 8
Ft. Lauderdale - NONE
Santa Barbra - NONE
Chicago - Only terminals 2 & 5
L. A. - NONE

This can be verified at URL=http://www.tsa.gov/briefing_room/briefing_room_index.shtm]http://www.tsa.gov/briefing_room/briefing_room_index.shtm[/URL] link to TSA progress.

As of today, the TSA is only at 82 aiports nation wide. WE have to staff over 430 more airports. Only Rhode Island and Connecticut are 100% Federal.

Also this article fails to mention that the TSA found 100% of the prohibited articles hidden in those lead-lined film bags. Prohibited items only made it through security at airports where independent companies were doing the screening.

Timebuilder, you won't have to remove your shoes if you buy shoes without metal shanks in the inseam. Also, you can carry nail clippers as long as they don't have a knife on them.

I agree we have a long way to go but we are definitely headed in the right direction. My question is how did they dispose of the mace that did make it through security?

 

[1900laker]

Slide33,

You say taking a gun on the aircraft is a terrible idea. What about airmarshalls? They are doing it now. Even better, what about normal law enforcement officers? They are too.

As for inpenetrable doors. No door is impenetrable if it is ever designed to open. And even more so vulnerable if it is ever opened in flight. Since neither of these is currently a posibility, what do we do. You can only descend out of 390 to an airport so fast and still in-tact. So howbout firearms for the guys up front with rules of engagement that they are only to be used if someone is literally breaking the door down. Remember crash-ax head? He didn't make it through, but he was making headway. And since our security is still not 100% in detection of even normal passengers bringing guns on board, I would rather not be in a gun fight armed with only a crash-ax. It only takes one pilot to fly these things, so the other can put down the hand mike, and pick up their firearm.

One more point. You argued that law enforcement officers are better trained with their firearms than 99.9% of pilots out there.
That first of all is a very bold statement. Some departments only actually train their folks semi-annually and some less than that. And a lot of pilots out there are ex-military, and trained with firearms, and yes....ex-law enforcement officers out there too. Don't make the point that they are trained, so don't let them carry. TRAIN THEM, TO AN ACCEPTABLE STANDARD, THEN LET THEM CARRY!!!! That's kind of like saying to a brand new student, "your not trained to land the airplane, therefore you are never going to solo." If there had been firearms on the flightdeck on september 11th, would it all have happened? Perhaps. But what if just one incident (one of the towers, the pentagon, or Pennsylvania) could have been prevented by firearms on the flightdeck? Would the risk have been worth it? These terrorist brought their own weapons on-board. They ran a very well organized campaign. I seriously doubt they would launch a plan to hijack an airliner with the intent of having to capture one of the pilots firearms first in order to carry it out.

 

[wingnutt]

i understand the animosity...but if you ask me, some reporters need to get ticketed/fined/jailed for being enough of a twit to smuggle illegal items thru security, and then have the balls to print it in the newspaper. thats the biggest load of crap, and what if they HAD been caught? "oh we were just testing the security for the safety of the american people" BULL CRAP, i say. im all for free speech, but sometimes the guise of journalism goes too far. what, they think that potential terrorists dont pay attention to the newspaper/magazines/tv news? ...whatthehellever.

sign me,
disgusted with the media

 

[Flydaplane]

My "personal" observation

Are we a little bitter toward the pilot community abd ALPA?

Not at all just pointing out to Dep676 (by looking at his profile I'm not even sure if he is an alpa member) that there are certain limits to what ALPA can do. Can they stage a walkout because they don't think they should be screened? I doubt it. There are limits to ALPA's power.



When government officials make heavy handed statements like "do what you're told", we've taken one step closer to becoming a dictatorship. I hope your attitude is not truly representative of the TSA.

Oh yeah "do what you're told" means I'm a dictator, should I have been nicer and said "obey the rules"....okay, obey the rules, by the way, that was ALPA's advice, not mine or TSA's, so relax.


Awful bold statement from someone who is a furloughed pilot. You sound a little bitter toward pilots who are still working, and also your union. Again, I hope your attitude isn't the standard at the TSA. I should think your superiors wouldn't approve of statements like this.

Why is that bold, its true. Don't worry about my attitude towards pilots. I am constantly defending US and trying to make it better for pilots. I'm simply stating a fact based on my personal observations. They dread having to wand pilots. Ask your GSC's (air carrier ground security coordinators who work at the checkpoints) if they think pilots are a pain at the checkpoints. Why do you think my supervisors wouldn't approve of that, hell my supervisors the one who pointed it out to me in the first place. I didn't believe him until I asked around and observed for a while. Ask a screener next time your being hand wanded if he would prefer to hand wand a pilot or a passenger.

If you don't alarm, you shouldn't be hand wanded, put all you metal stuff through the xray (including your shoes if you have shanks in them) and you'll probably get through easier (this is just a suggestion illfly not a TSA mandate!!)

Not flaming you, just pointing out an apparent bias.
Interesting you ask for a public outcry in the same diatribe in which you tell us to just "do as we're told". Which one is it now?

It is both, you can obey the rules while working for change as I and many others are. "Do as your told"...obey the rules. Write your Congressman, last time I checked there's nothing illegal about doing that is there?

 

[slide33]

1900laker

You maka a good point. I should have been more specific. I don't think air marshalls are a bad idea.

But I do think that pilots carrying firearms in the cockpit is a bad idea. Don't get me wrong here. I'm active duty military qualified with m-9's and m-16's. I'm not anti-gun at all. My opinion is that a pilot's responsibilities are to fly the airplane safely, fly the airplane safely, and fly the airplane safely. There are just too many invariables and things that can go wrong when that pilot opens that door with a loaded weapon. Jeopardizing the controls of the aircraft should never be an option. That means inaccessible cockpits.

I think your argument against inaccesible cockpits is pretty weak. I am very confident that the engineering technology exists today to design a cockpit door that can prevent unwanted entry. The reason these are currently "unavailable" is they cost $.

As a pilot, you should never be in a gunfight in the first place. You should be securely in the cockpit taking whatever emergency actions are required to maintain the overall safety of the aircraft. It has been demonstrated more than once that pax no longer carry the "bank robbery" attitude. The mindset of "just do what they want and nobody gets hurt" doesn't exist anymore. Pax are willing to fight back now.

If my stating that police officers are better trained with a firearm than pilots is bold, then I'm one bold sum-bich. I don't care how many ex-G.I's or ex-cops or ex-whatever are pilots. You didn't have a response to the 1 in 5 cops killed with a firearm are done so with their own weapon. What happens if the pilot loses the weapon? You're telling me that's not a very realistic possibility?

you said

Don't make the point that they are trained, so don't let them carry. TRAIN THEM, TO AN ACCEPTABLE STANDARD, THEN LET THEM CARRY!!!! That's kind of like saying to a brand new student, "your not trained to land the airplane, therefore you are never going to solo."

I don't even have a response to this other than you're countering points and making analogies that aren't even close to what I said. You're twisting my words to make your argument.

What if a hijacker had his knife to the FA's throat and demanded the pilot's gun? What then? I'd rather there have been air marshalls on board 9/11. I also think todays passengers wouldn't have sat and watched. They would have done exactly what flight 93 did. They would have fought back.