Repeal of Age 60 rule

[BLUE BAYOU]

The Age 60 rule is obsolete. People are living longer and healthier lives and pilots I've flown with before their 60th birthdays are just as safe as the day after their 60th. The rule is in place today to favor the major airlines who'd like no better than kick off the most expensive and likely nonproductive pilots on the payroll AND if the industry is going the way it's going, having an opportunity to fly beyond 60 will be good for the majority of us who don't howl to a A or B fund retirement. If you're independently wealthy, you should be able to retire before 60 and hit your favorite golf courses. You may lose your medical before 60. Who knows, but it would be nice to at least have that chance...

 

[Spur]

The Age 60 rule is obsolete. The rule is in place today to favor the major airlines who'd like no better than kick off the most expensive and likely nonproductive pilots on the payroll...

Actually, most airlines would favor a repeal of the age 60 rule because it is cheaper for them to fly pilots til they die, especially for companies that have A-funds. While at first it may seem logical that they would benefit from giving the boot to the "most expensive" pilots, in reality there is not much difference in pay and vacation between the most senior capt and the most junior one who would take his place. The biggest salary benefit to the company would be from the new hire. However, this benefit would be short-lived and would generally be more than offset by the numerous training cycles required (ie new hire to replace senior narrowbody FO, senior narrowbody FO to widebody FO, wide body FO to narrow body Capt.....) plus the fact that the retired Capt is now earning 30-50% of his previous salary for doing NOTHING! For Airlines without A-funds, it may be a wash....

The best reason to prevent the repeal of the Age 60 rule is the way many airlines have their A-funds structured. Generally you take a certain percentage reduction for every year you retire prior to the "regulated age". If that were not the case it would still suck for everyone while even more pilots joined/stayed in the market but I dont think ALPA would be so strongly against it then...

 

[General Lee]

I could see this becoming a reality when they were short of pilots three years ago, but now with the abundance of furloughed pilots out there it doesn't seem like such a "need." Some people just love to fly (me being one of them), and it is too bad that their dreams are cut short at an age limit, but I would hope by the age of 60 they could go "enjoy" the rest of their life on a nice golf course. But, some do not have the luxury of a nice retirement package.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[skeezer]

Here is my take on this issue.

First off, if I am still working after 60 I want somebody to shoot me. As much as I love my job, and I really do love it, I do NOT want to work any longer than I have to. Heck, if they lowered the age to 55 I would be stoked!

I still do not undertand the reasons that people want to continue working past 60. Working longer shortens your life span (studies have shown this), and gives you less time to spend with family and just plain enjoying life. Personally I would rather spend time playing with grandchildren than flying across the country all month. As somebody said earlier, if you love flying so much (like I do) buy a Cub and have at it.

Additionally, there are many people in other industrys that make less than most senior airline captains yet they retire earlier than 60. If they can plan for the future why can't airline pilots? Yeah I know the economy sucks balls now, and some people got really, really screwed out of their pensions (ala US Airways), but if someone making less than half what you do can plan ahead why can't you? Besides, the economic issue doesn't hold water with me because old folks were complaining about this rule way before the economy went in the hole.

Someone made point about full social security and medicare benefits being extended to mandatory age 60 retired guys and I happen to agree with that.

Finally, while I agree that with advances in medical care and the healthy lifestyles more people live it is possible to be a perfectly able pilot past 60, I have seen some that haven't reached 60 who shouldn't be there at all. If they do change the rule to 65 they better do something with the medical certification to make sure these old guys (yeah that means me one day too) are up to snuff.

Enjoy retirement, if you've worked up till age 60 you deserve a break!

Take Care.

Skeezer

 

[canyonblue]

Regardless of how you feel on this issue, the fact that management used the FAA to impose something they could not negotiate away from the pilot group, sets a bad example from a group of pilots that now feel perfectly fine with it only because it suits THEM. ALPA fought this for 20 years before a more junior membership turned a 180. As far as retirement goes the UsAir guys would have a chance to at least double their pension, but that probably doesn’t affect YOU.

A personal request by C.R. Smith, Chairman of American Airlines, to his personal friend, (Ret.) Gen. Elwood Quesada, newly appointed Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) is recognized virtually without dissent as the true impetus for creation of the Age 60 Rule. These Smith-Quesada letters became public only years later -- long after Ruppenthal had described the circumstances of its birth in the article referenced above.

Here’s one of the nice letters:

http://www.age60rule.com/docs/smith_quesada.pdf

 

[phishn@daves]

This is Bullsh!T

1. If you need to vote yes you have not really thought about what it will do to this industry!

2. I agree that people are living longer healthier lives, great retire healthy have some fun, live your life!

But, Guys/Girls retiring at 60 have flown in the hay-day of this industry, when pilots were looked up to and paid accordingly!Those days are over, gone.

The 250,000 dollar per year days are over. You guy's who are retiring have lived the life in this industry, great money, young flight attendants (somehow that works here), NO TSA!!

If the age 60 rule changes to 63-66 yrs., people like myself will not upgrade to even regional captain for 3-6 years from now! We will be paid FO salaries at a regional well past 30yrs. of age. You older airline guys were getting major pay, some even capt. pay by your 30's!

If I am wrong here, someone point out the positves to raising the retirement age, but please don't tell me it's a "right" that they should stick around another 3-6 years while we have to work 2-3 jobs to own a house, and support our families, and live crappy life-styles!

If you love flying that much, flight instruct, new students would gain considerable skill and knowledge from someone who has so much experience!

I'm not trying to sound selfish, sometimes I lose my point when I am typing, I just think attrition is a strong part of this industry right now!

 

[Intruder One]

Think of all the regional pilots there will be in a few years,its the fastest growing segment of the industry.They have no retirement,zilch,zero,nothing.If they are forced to retire at 60,they have awhile before SS.Some will be 67 before they can draw depending on your age.Alot will be in a bad way with no income.Let it be increased to personal choice beyond 60 for those not fortunate enough to make six figures and retire early.

 

[Freak Biscuit]

I have struggled with this issue. Age discrimination is wrong! Whether you are forced to retire at 60, 63, or 66, you are still being forced to retire.

However, should there be an age limit? Does the flying public want to see some old geezer in the cockpit? I think it would just add more anxiety to an already nervous passenger.

I guess my point is this: If you are going to take a side in this debate, base your decision on what is "the right thing to do" and not just your own selfish reasons.

By the way, what would a Class I medical for a 66 year old involve? Bend over!

Freak

 

[Sugardaddy]

I too have struggled. But right now I look at it from my short viewed perspective: 1. I am waiting to get a job. 2. I do have a mortgage to pay and a family to feed 3. Extending the age limit beyond 60, would mean companies would need LESS new hires, since growth is slow and ATTRITION is the ONLY game in town.

Please... somebody smart explain to me how eliminating the age limit will benefit me (and the thousands of furloughed pilots), who are waiting to just work again.

 

[General Lee]

The major airlines are against it because they have to keep paying the higher wages to the senior pilots longer. Just think, if pilots retire at the majors, there is a ripple affect. People move up from one aircraft to another. The airlines actually get a semi-bargain to have the junior pilots flying the larger equipment. For example, pre- 9-11 there were many junior pilots flying the 757/767 as FO's---some in their first or second year. Delta was paying them far less than the normal pilots who flew them---like year 8 or 9 FO's---instead paying less for year 2 pilots. As people retire, pilots move up and occupy seats they could not hold before, and are paid less than those who just left. Delta would love it if the flight attendants retired, not only because there are a lot of older ones that are burned out and don't care, but because they all make huge wages. They have furloughed all of the younger, cheaper flight attendants. The main reason of course that they stay is because they don't really have a retirement. So, as their friends in that age bracket all go out and play tennis or golf on tuesday mornings each week, they have a Dayton turn. It sucks. The pilots do have a great retirment (so far anyway), and most are leaving with the low Gatt rate and enjoying their new life. That is why the regional pilots should want to come to the majors some day (or what is left of them). There will always be some sort of better retirement at the majors.(but it might not be as good some day compared with today)

Bye Bye--General Lee

Bye Bye--General Lee