Ramp Fees

[57FLY'N]

All right guys and gal's, it's time we put our heads together to put an end to the unjustified and excessive trend of charging ramp fees for simply a pax drop.

Just to state my views on the subject. I do believe that if you or your pax use services (crew car, crew lounge, popcorn etc.) you should pay something. However, if you are simply dropping or picking up, in most cases as a taxpayer you should have every right to do so without incurring any fees.

Some operators have invested large amounts of money to maintain their own fuel farms, or fuel deals. Therefore to buy "courtesy" fuel defeats the purpose of the investment.

Please don't misunderstand me, I firmly believe in paying for services no matter how small. But, where is the limit? Give me a break, 200 for opening and shutting the door.

This is not aimed at Signature, even though they are the ones that everyone else is following. And when you land at an airport with a dirty facility and rude people and then hand you a 125 bill you have to just about explode. And don't give me the, " these aircraft cost so much that it is just a drop in the bucket excuse." No matter the cost it is unjustifiable.

So let’s hear some ideas.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

If you dont like the fees, dont use the FBO.

Can you imagine the fees and taxes Signature pays NYC to operate at KLGA? Those just get passed on to you.

So.....if the boss dont like the fees, maybe drop at an airport 1-2 hrs outside the busy metro areas and avoid the 200$ charge. Not likely.....

We avoid high fees when practical for our 9 jets, as it adds up over time....but sometimes its just the cost of doing business.

Think Signature is pricy?? Try Moscow (UUEE) or Narita Tokyo (RJAA)...makes 300$ at KLGA look nice!

 

[Hubie]

Agreed, Asia and Europe can be expensive, $3,000.00 landing fees in China and $5 to $6 fuel in Europe plus all those vat’s and mot’s added in.

But try bartering for fuel in India, yes that’s right bartering for fuel.

 

[Peardc10]

I agree

Your right, it is outrageous about the fee's for dropping someone off and getting charged $200-300.

I recently talked to a regional manager of a Signature Operation. He said that they are owned by a British Company and charge these fee's because they want a guarantee profit, they usually have the highest fuel prices around the country, and monopolize many airports around the country. In Minneapolis, they are the only game in town, so your options are limited...so we usually go somewhere else. We use St. Paul, Regent Aviation-no fee's, reasonalble fuel prices and only a few more minutes to downtown MSP. Its usually up to the boss, but when we do our homework we can save the company some money and still meet the objectives for the company.

I told the manager that if Signature would reduce the fee or eliminate the handling fee, lower their fuel prices, a lot of corporate operators would buy more fuel, and they would probably make more money on volume in the long run. Just my .02 cents worth.

If a FBO has nice clean facility, friendly-helpful people, I usually by fuel,,,,,spread the wealth. Competion is great, when there is none........watch out and grab on to your wallet. Bottom line-you do the homework and you decide who you use..

Thats all folks........

 

[LJDRVR]

This won't be a popular response, but I think FBO's are in business to make money. While I would prefer they not charge me to drop-off, they are fully justified in doing so.

If you were the FBO owner, would you want to see some 75,000 pound aircraft pull up on your ramp, discharge PAX after using your ramp (the most expensive and valuable resource you have) then leave, without helping contribute to your bottom line? This isn't a charity. Your handling fee helps pay for real estate, taxes, the salary of the line guy that marshalled you in and out, and the janitor who cleaned the toilets your pax p*ssed in. What's left is (how un-American) ...PROFIT! If you don't like the ramp fees, call the FBO's and attempt to negotiate some relief based on your prior relationship with them. Otherwise, we can pull up to the airport perimeter fence with our wing over the edge, and ask our passengers to exit off the end of the wing.

I dislike Signature immensely, but they are going to lose some fuel sales to insure the register goes ka-ching every time someone pulls up on their ramp. I use another FBO when possible and NEVER buy courtesy fuel at Signature.

 

[57FLY'N]

[we can pull up to the airport perimeter fence with our wing over the edge, and ask our passengers to exit off the end of the wing]

This is what I am talking about, solutions. I know you meant this in good humor, but in some places where fbo's have a monopoly, such as MIA, there is a drop off facility that simply lets you drop off and get out.

As I said before I agree, that if you use a facility then you should pay something. If the facilities are getting money from the county to operate, which most are, that should cover the costs of people simply walking through your lobby, and even an occasional tird in their toilet.

And if we must pay these fees, then the line guys should be driving BMW's because they are the ones doing the work and the money is going into the big guy’s pocket. How can you justify a tip to a line guy when you just made a 200-dollar donation to the fbo?

Please leave signature out of it because it has already been established that they are scum however nice their facilities are. Lets talk about the tag alongs

 

[TAG2]

fees

This isn't really a "ramp fee" issue, but it is a fee none the less. Try Toronto (YYZ). Between user fees and GTAA landing fees, it costs us close to $1000 CD between BUF and CYYZ. None of this can be waived with fuel. The GTAA is now forcing the FBO's to collect for them (landing fees). This totally unreasonable.

 

[smellthejeta]

This is an interesting thread because it creates somewhat of a conflict for me. I fly spamcans, and dropped a pax off at DCA. Yeah, that's right, Signature, the only game in town, charged me $30 freaking dollars for the service of opening and closing the door. I then requested that the FBO transport my pax to the airline terminal. Their response? Sir, they can use the employee shuttle bus that stops right outside the door. I almost blew through the roof -- for $30, I used no services what soever (alright, it's only $20 'cause $10 went to MWAA for the landing fee) at least make me think I'm getting SOMETHING for the money I just spent. There is such thing as value here.

I now work full time for a facility that competes with Signature at another location, and do some part time work at a different reliever airport. The difference is night and day. At the part time joint, my boss throws a party whenever somebody buys 1,000 gallons of fuel and gets pissed when people use a bunch of services and doesn't take fuel. Coordinating rental cars and hotel rooms is work, and not something that should be expected for free. However, for a pax drop, I don't see where a fee is justified, and he won't charge one. Even that 200 gallons of courtesy fuel goes a long way for him, and there I truly understand the concept.

At my full time job, we do a lot of volume, and we can easily pump 30,000 gallons per shift on the slow shift. The pm shift, a bit busier, will do a little more. I don't know how often our daily sales pass 100,000 gallons, but that would be a nice day.

We will not charge you a ramp fee for a pax drop. If you're out in under three hours, there is no ramp fee. Over three hours, and yeah, you get a fee. Part of it is to cover our costs for our ramp guys, because if you want to use a premium parking space, your time there is limited. We will move you off after you clear the aircraft, and tow you back up before your departure time. Our ramp space is also at a premium, and if you want to take up space and not spend money, we'd just as soon leave it open for somebody who will spend some $$$.

As far as courtesy fuel goes... I find it slightly ironic sometimes. We do such a volume and can be busy enough where courtesy fuel is almost a waste of our time. If there's a line for fuel, personally, I'd just as soon you skip it because you're holding up service for those that actually need to be fueled and get of there. Instead of courtesy fuel, just "thank" the line guy, so to speak. Don't get me wrong, if you wish to thank the FBO by buying fuel, that's fine, but sometimes it doesn't have the effect you think it does.

I would like to think my company provides service at a value, and doesn't charge fees left and right. We will charge them for lavatory service and extended GPU usage, but not for coffee, newspapers, etc.

 

[501261]

Ramp fees are just part of doing business. If you don't want to pay them you will almost always be able to find an airport within 30 miles that doesn't have any (domestically).

Sure it’s annoying to pay ramp fees, but in a flight department's budget, ramp fees account for less than 1% of the cost of operation. Put it this way, your CEO wants to go from TEB to SDL so you put 4 flying hours on your GIV (@~$3000 per hour=$12,000) if you dropped him off in CGZ so that you can avoid the $75 ramp fee in SDL, you might find yourself out of a job.

 

[capt_zman]

I really despise the argument of "go somewhere else" or "You fly a $3000/hr airplane, you can afford it." That is ridiculous. It's not about whether you can afford it or not, it's about providing a service and get reasonably paid for it.

For example, we picked up one of our clients in LEB the other day. Weather was fairly nasty, so NOBODY came out to park us, red carpet us, or anything. We get slapped with a $225.00 fee. Are you kidding me? We complain to the desk receptionist about how insane that is and her reply is, "We have those fees so you can pick/up and dropoff your customers." Give me a break, it's Lebanon, NH for crying out loud.

On the way home, we had to dropoff at LEB. Same thing, not a sole on the ramp, no carpet, no nothing, but a $225.00 bill.

Yes, we're flying a multi-million dollar airplane, but to charge $225 for doing nothing is wrong, I don't care how rich or poor you are.

Is it me, or are these horror stories popping up more frequently these days?