Question on FAR flight duty time

[V1rowt8]

My understanding of when flight time starts is when all doors are closed, the brake is released and ACARS trips the out time. The clock stops when the A/C is parked at the gate and MCD is opened. At my company our pay is based off of the MCD but the in time is tripped by any door but usually the cargo door trips our in time. The problem is this. Usually the rampers open the cargo door and beginning unloading the bags but there is no jetway driver to drive the jetway so we sit sometimes for a couple of minutes or many. Sometimes there is no GPU available so the #2 engine will be up until the GPU is available or I crank up the APU if it will be longer than 5 minutes or so, which is rare. The companies stance is that the time that we are waiting is paid as flight time but they are not counting it against our FAR flight duty limits. I believe this to be wrong. In just the last couple of pairings I have 27 minutes of flight time that the company is not counting as flight time but is being paid as flight time. Anyone care to give their opinion and if this is happening to them.

 

[Blue Dude]

Sounds like the company is being generous in paying you. It also sounds like they are right with regards to legality. In theory, they could count your flight time over as soon as the plane comes to rest at the gate, but for practical purposes, it's when the ACARS registers your in time. I think they're on pretty solid legal ground here.

Count your blessings. There are plenty of companies trying to find ways of screwing you out of earned pay, not trying to find ways to pay you beyond your ACARS in time.

 

[Mike man]

I think the definition of "flight time" is when the aircraft moves for the purpose of flight...your 30/7 and so forth. They can not schedule you for 8:27 and tell you that the :27 is not scheduled flight time but it is ground waiting time so it does not count toward scheduled flight time.

 

[V1rowt8]

As far as pay it is great that we are getting paid until the MCD door is opened. In light of the many hardships many of us are enduring these days this issue is minuscule in comparison. The real issue that I was concerned is how the FAA defines flight time and if the company is in line with the FAA. If so great but if not worst case scenario of an accident or incident and the inevitable investigation I don't want to be found to be at fault by not accurately keeping track of my flight time.

 

[radarlove]

Is the parking brake set and the airplane not moving under its own power? How is a parked, chocked airplane logging "flight time"?

Answer: it's not.

Your company is correct.

Previous poster said, "Moving under its own power for purposes of flight". He's right.

 

[V1rowt8]

Sounds great, thanks for the input. The last scenario is taxiing out under our own power with the intention of taking off, sitting in line for two hours and having to gate return for more fuel. This is also not being counted as flight time but is being paid as flight time. Any ideas on this one? Again, thanks everyone for the input.

 

[GuppyWN]

You taxied out for the purpose of flight. The gate return should be considered flight time. I can gaurandamnteeyou the FAA would consider it flight time if you had an incident during that period.

Gup

 

[BobbyBiplane]

There is no correlation between the numbers reported for DOT "on-time" performance and the 14CFR121 flight or duty regulations.

 

[av8tor4239]

This thread makes me appreciate being on a salary (alpa sux). and working for a company that has bankers hours (NJ)

You must work for a regional... I remember this crap when acars was being put on our ERJ's at coex AKA express jet... you must be at CAL.. some things never change

 

[Blue Dude]

You taxied out for the purpose of flight. The gate return should be considered flight time. I can gaurandamnteeyou the FAA would consider it flight time if you had an incident during that period.

Gup

Actually, since flight did not actually occur, a RTG doesn't count towards flight time. It counts as duty time and it had better count towards pay, but for flight time limits, nope. I can't quote chapter and verse off the top of my head, but this is established precedent with the FAA. Yeah, it's bogus.